From phma@oltronics.net Sun Aug 19 13:38:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 19 Aug 2001 20:38:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 54435 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2001 20:38:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Aug 2001 20:38:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO neofelis.ixazon.lan) (216.189.29.65) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Aug 2001 20:38:21 -0000 Received: by neofelis.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 500) id CA1AB3C463; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: phma@oltronics.net To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Toward a {ce'u} record Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:38:02 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0108191638020N.01556@neofelis> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com From: Pierre Abbat On Sunday 19 August 2001 16:11, John Cowan wrote: > > So, the disagreement is about whether the {ce'u} must always be written > > in and, if not, where the implicit one is. > > 1) Every {ce'u} must be explicit. [...] > > 2) Not so -- some {ce'u} may be implicit, so long as there is a rule for > > identifying the place(s). > > Or 3) Not so -- some {ce'u} may be implicit, and it is up to the > intelligence of the hearer/reader to figure out where they go. I think both 2 and 3. In formal Lojban, {ce'u} fills the first unfilled place, counting {zo'e} as filling a place; in informal Lojban, it fills the first unfilled place that makes sense. I would also apply these rules to ke'a in relative clauses. li'o > > For this and general > > reasons, I suggest that {ce'u}, like KOhA generally, be taken as having > > implicit subscripts (starting with 0) assigned in left to right order. > > I think this convention is overkill, though of course I cannot consistently > say it is outright wrong. Would ce'uxipa and ce'uxire apply to two sumti such that the property is a relationship between them, or would they apply to different levels of nested ka?