From nicholas@uci.edu Mon Aug 20 19:42:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nicholas@uci.edu X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 21 Aug 2001 02:42:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 8677 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2001 02:41:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2001 02:41:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO e4e.oac.uci.edu) (128.200.222.10) by mta3 with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 02:41:54 -0000 Received: from localhost (nicholas@localhost) by e4e.oac.uci.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21835; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:41:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: e4e.oac.uci.edu: nicholas owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:41:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: To: Cc: Nick NICHOLAS Subject: Re: [lojban] Retraction, Part 1 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Nick NICHOLAS cu'u la xorxes >>Lesson 14 currently says in an exercise that the 'chicken' Zhang is >>building out of pretzels should not be described as {lo jipci}, but {le >>jipci}. Should this now be eliminated? >At least it should be modified, because the alternative to {lo jipci} >is {lo jipci tarmi} not {le jipci}. There's no reason why the pretzel >nature of the object would require a definite instead of an indefinite >reference. xorxes, you know better than that: {le} is not definite, it's non-veridical, and the case of {le ninmu} that turns out to be {lo nanmu} is definitional to it. Definiteness is neither here nor there. You can contend that {le} should be definite, not non-veridical. I would go further, and say that since Bertrand Russell came up with the iota quantifier yay back when, using a non-veridical to model definiteness is embarrassing. But that's set in stone for Lojban. >And if you're brave enough you might want to explain why it >should be {lo tarmi be lo'e jipci} and not {lo tarmi be lo jipci}. I've only mentioned {lo'e} once glancingly in the lessons, so I'm disinclined to. Hate to say this, since it's my fault, but they're overloaded as is. -- == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == Nick Nicholas, Breathing {le'o ko na rivbi fi'inai palci je tolvri danlu} nicholas@uci.edu -- Miguel Cervantes tr. Jorge LLambias