Subject: r's

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:21:18 EDT

My (highly fallible) memory has it that there were some studies at UCLA in 
the 70 or 80's maybe by Vicky Fromkin and/or Peter Ladefoged on both various 
things that counted as r's and on sequisyllabic words like Carl and Earl. 
The archives should have some informative spectrograms, if so.
The only postvocalic r's that seem to be problematic in Lojban are the Broad 
Brits (including those of the upper US), who try to get by with lengthening 
and various odd congestions in the back of their throats (which they 
regularly deny happens and sometimes does not), and really thorough uvular 
French r's. The first ends up being just the vowel to many ears, the second 
falls dangerously close to /x/ for people not too used to the real thing (and 
even some who are). Trills, flaps and retroflex fricatives work best -- and 
the last two make for easy syllabics. The uvular also works if extended 
(though I always need to spit shortly thereafter).
In passing, I should note another syllabic consonant (or two) in some Lojban 
idiolects. These are /s/ and /z/ (I have not heard /c/ nor /j/ but they are 
surely possible and even likely) They turn up in Chinese names and 
correspond to Chinese sounds : {s,ma} (Ssu-ma) and {laud,z} (Lao-tse) and 
other like that. The first case can be treated as a buffered consonant 
cluster, maybe the second, too. But the "buffering" is quite different from 
the usual ones, being a buzz with not particular vowel articulation.