From jjllambias@hotmail.com Tue Aug 21 15:38:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 21 Aug 2001 22:38:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 2920 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2001 22:37:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2001 22:37:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.240.141) by mta3 with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 22:37:10 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:37:10 -0700 Received: from 200.41.247.36 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:37:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.247.36] To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [lojban] Retraction, Part 1 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:37:10 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Aug 2001 22:37:10.0255 (UTC) FILETIME=[D0AA97F0:01C12A91] From: "Jorge Llambias" la pier cusku di'e >jipci tarmi isn't right either; it's the shape of a chicken, not something >shaped like a chicken, which is jipci seltai or jipci tamsmi. That's right if you stick to the place structures as presented in the gismu list. I find that {tarmi} and {skari} are much more useful if taken to mean "x1 is of the shape of x2" and "x1 is of the color of x2". Otherwise I don't know what to put in the x1 of the gismu. In the rare cases when you want to talk of the abstract shape or color, they're {ka ce'u tarmi makau} and {ka ce'u skari makau}, or {kamtai} and {kamska} for short. In the case of {junta} it doesn't matter much that it got a weird x1 because it didn't displace any other meaning, but in the case of {tarmi} and {skari}, wasting the gismu for the abstract property is a shame. How do you say "sky coloured" or "chicken shaped". {seltai} doesn't help, {seltai be ma pe lo'e jipci}. {tamsmi} and {skasmi} would work, but that means we would lose the advantage of having the short rafsi -ska and -tai with useful meanings, so that we can have for example {tanska} for sky-coloured instead of {tanskasmi}. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp