From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Wed Aug 22 10:47:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 22 Aug 2001 17:47:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 73549 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 17:34:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2001 17:34:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 17:34:55 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:13:25 +0100 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:40:18 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:40:05 +0100 To: lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] platonism, organicism and hardlinerism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta >>> michael helsem 08/22/01 03:48pm >>> #>Organicists see a language as a community of communicating #>users and as a body of usage. Platonists see a language as an #>abstract set of rules. # #i am most inclined to the (late) Wittgensteinian view that language #is like a game, with consensual rules open to consensual modification. #this seems to combine Platonist & Organicist, but perhaps the former #would reject it on account of the way rules tend to become irreversibly #modified in time. To me, neither games nor language are like this. (I'm talking about our pre= ferred definitions, not about matters of fact, of course.) Rather, there is evolution in which game/language the community plays/speak= s. The community changes from speaking Language A to speaking the very slig= htly different Language B. That is, the game/language is defined by the rul= es and not by the players/speakers. To me, your Wittgensteinian position is fully Organicist. (Hopefully it will be remembered that this thread is about understanding on= e another's ideiological/philosophical positions.) --And.