From arosta@uclan.ac.uk Wed Aug 22 11:11:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 22 Aug 2001 18:11:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 33382 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 18:02:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2001 18:02:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 18:02:29 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:41:07 +0100 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:08:01 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:07:31 +0100 To: lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] Toward a {ce'u} record Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: And Rosta >>> John Cowan 08/21/01 04:42pm >>> #> (And then there's the contrast between: #> 1. Only Prince Charles remembers marrying Diana (True] #> 2. Only Prince Charles remembers him marrying Diana (False) #>=20 #> where in (2) a mere repeater anaphor is sufficient, while in (1) #> we require (as the marrier sumti) something different and more #> ce'u-like.) # #(1) I think is a li'i (experience abstractor) case: P.C. po'o #-remembers le li'i ri -marries D. kei be ri. That way we need #no special machinery. # #(2) is just P.C. po'o -remembers le nu ri -marries D. Right enough, but let me change the examples, then. 1. Only John survived being KGB chief. [all other chiefs got croaked] 2. Only Bill survived John being KGB chief 3. Only John survived John being KGB chief. 4. John heard himself burp and so did Bob. [ambiguous: who did Bill hear burp?] 5. Sinatra enjoys singing and so does Bill. [ambiguous: whose singing does Bill enjoy?] The challenge is to capture the difference among 1-3 and to paraphrase each reading of 4 & 5. --And.