From nicholas@uci.edu Wed Aug 22 16:32:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nicholas@uci.edu X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 22 Aug 2001 23:32:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 93019 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 23:32:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Aug 2001 23:32:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO e4e.oac.uci.edu) (128.200.222.10) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 23:32:58 -0000 Received: from localhost (nicholas@localhost) by e4e.oac.uci.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03202; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:32:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: e4e.oac.uci.edu: nicholas owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:32:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: To: Cc: Nick NICHOLAS Subject: Re: status of ka (was Re: [lojban] x3 of du' Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Nick NICHOLAS In response to pc: * We already have a way of going from n-tuples to truth. It's called a selbri: Lx1Lx2Lx3Lx4Lx5.broda(x1,x2,x3,x4,x5) is the same as {zo broda selbri ledu'u da broda de di daxi4 daxi5}. I'm happy to admit this is wrong, but be specific how. * In a remarkable backflip from my attributed hardlinerism (then again, I don't think I'm the only one backflipping), I don't want {ka} to mean 'relationship of n-tuples'. I want it to mean 'property', because that's what I'm going to have much more use for in using Lojban. * Therefore, maybe we wouldn't just be referring to ce'u as lambda variables. I like John's formulation of this a lot: you reify the broda (turn it into du'u), and then let some lambda variables back in (put in some ce'u slots) --- rather than preserve all the lambda variables of the original. I think lambda calculus is the bomb, and wonderful, and it would be great to use it in the metalanguage of Lojban. But I don't want its progeny hanging like an albatross over me any time I want to speak of a property of *just one thing*. -- == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == Nick Nicholas, Breathing {le'o ko na rivbi fi'inai palci je tolvri danlu} nicholas@uci.edu -- Miguel Cervantes tr. Jorge LLambias