From nicholas@uci.edu Wed Aug 22 22:02:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: nicholas@uci.edu X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 23 Aug 2001 05:02:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 4713 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2001 05:02:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Aug 2001 05:02:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO e4e.oac.uci.edu) (128.200.222.10) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Aug 2001 05:02:49 -0000 Received: from localhost (nicholas@localhost) by e4e.oac.uci.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09499; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:02:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: e4e.oac.uci.edu: nicholas owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:02:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: To: Cc: Nick NICHOLAS Subject: Re: Problem with Long Distance vo'a Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Nick NICHOLAS cu'u la xod. >mi djica le nu klama ko'a ko'e soi vo'a vo'e Yes, it's a problem. We can: (a) say a uniform treatment of vo'a is too important to sacrifice, which would mean what you're saying is nonsense (= soi mi lenu klama), and you should be saying instead {soi ko'a}, or more generally {soi lenei [lesenei]}. (b) start making exceptions, and say the interpretation of vo'a is flexible. Ironically, originally the interpretation of vo'a *was* flexible; in the archives, you'll see people very frequently qualifying vo'a with vo'a pe di'u, vo'a pe dei &c. in the olden days. Problem is, of course, there's no {di'u} equivalent for {nei}, as I found (http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9201/msg00063.html), and it'd be silly to start saying {vo'a pe lenu nei} or {nei zei vo'a} (!!). I'd rather break this example phrase than everything else. Keep {vo'a} as it is, and use {lenei} when you absolutely must have a short-distance reflexive. A reminder btw that the Wiki has much sanity on vo'a, compiled yesterday, at: http://nuzban.wiw.org/wiki/index.php?Why%20the%20Book%20is%20Right%20and%20the%20ma%27oste%20is%20Wrong and my magnum opus http://nuzban.wiw.org/wiki/index.php?Prior%20usage%20and%20discussions%20of%20vo%27a -- == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == Nick Nicholas, Breathing {le'o ko na rivbi fi'inai palci je tolvri danlu} nicholas@uci.edu -- Miguel Cervantes tr. Jorge LLambias