From jcowan@reutershealth.com Thu Aug 23 07:26:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_1); 23 Aug 2001 14:26:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 19750 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2001 14:22:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Aug 2001 14:22:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.reutershealth.com) (204.243.9.36) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Aug 2001 14:22:16 -0000 Received: from reutershealth.com (IDENT:cowan@[192.168.3.11]) by mail.reutershealth.com (Pro-8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27969; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:23:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B85115C.8000306@reutershealth.com> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:21:16 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: And Rosta Cc: lojban Subject: Re: [lojban] ce'u References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: John Cowan And Rosta wrote: > #But so does nu. An event labeled with nu need not have happened > #(le nu co'e cu na fasnu). > > And likewise, {le prenu cu na fasnu}, {le prenu cu na zasti}. Nooo, this case is not really comparable. A Lojban event can exist (zasti) without occurring (fasnu). For the former, it suffices that the event be consistently describable. For the latter, it must correspond to some actual region of space-time. Al Gore is not President of the U.S. But the event of his being so is an existing (zasti) event nonetheless. It can have things predicated about it. > So when we are using the mechanisms for talking only > about realworld entities, whatever those mechanisms turn out to > be, li'i broda will not be equivalent to li'i le nu broda. I suppose you mean "lifri le nu broda". I claim in fact that they are equivalent, because there is an existent (abstract) thing that is "le nu broda", whether "broda" holds or not. -- Not to perambulate || John Cowan the corridors || http://www.reutershealth.com during the hours of repose || http://www.ccil.org/~cowan in the boots of ascension. \\ Sign in Austrian ski-resort hotel