Re: [jboske] On {lo'e} and various "{lo'e}"

["Jorge Llambias" <jjllambias@hotmail.com>]

la pycyn cusku di'e

> The point about xorxes came home when he commented that we got into trouble
> using {lo'e} in first position when it was usually elsewhere.

Let me clarify that a little. I have no problem at all with
{lo'e} in x1. My doubts are about translating that into
English as subject rather than predicate. So, for example,
I would translate {lo'e remna cu zmadu ti} as "this is
man-made", and not as "the typical human made this".
"Humans made this" also works as a translation though,
but it is not really meant as a property of humans, it
doesn't really say that humans are such that they made this.

> Of course, I think that there is an easier way to do this --
> defining in terms of {tu'a} in particular, though that does not extend to
> predicates that don't take abstractions. On the other hand, I am not at 
> all
> sure why we would want those terms elsewhere anyhow: I don't see hitting 
> such
> a man, for example (making do allowance for the mess the metaphor makes 
> "any
> man, it does not matter which) as something I would or could do -- though I
> can imagine wanting to do it and so on -- back in the original context 
> again.

For example:

la djan cu darxi lo'e nanmu ze'a le jeftu
John has been hitting men all week.

> (I also am
> curious to see what the {kairbroda} generalization will be of predicates 
> that
> normally take abstract arguments -- I suspect that we will find that our 
> old
> familiar predicates are the {kair} forms really, and "the real" predicates
> are the ones that take xorxes' sumti.)

I could answer that if you thought that my definitions make
sense. If you can't make sense of them, it is pointless that
I try to explain cases in terms of them to you.

I don't request that you approve of the definitions, you
may very well think that {lo'e} should be defined some other
way, but if you don't even understand them, how can we discuss
their ramifications.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


_________________________________________________________________
Get faster connections?-- switch to?MSN Internet Access! 
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp