e-gadri & utility of lo'ei (was: RE: RE: Re: lo'e

["And Rosta" <a.rosta@lycos.co.uk>]

Adam:
> de'i li 2002-10-25 ti'u li 11:12:00 la'o zoi. And Rosta .zoi cusku di'e
>
> >> and so 'mi nelci lo'ei cakla' is far too general to be useful in
> >> translating 'I like chocolate.'
> >
> >Yes. It's really useful for "I need chocolate", though
>
> Yes, and also for lion tamers and man-eating sharks, though I will
> use 'tu'o' for this when I don't use a tanru or lujvo.

I don't think tu'o is adequate. No PA can replace it and give the
desired meaning. We really either explicitly have to say what we
mean, or else use lo'ei.

> >> At this point I think I would still like to
> >> use 'lo'e' for 'I like chococate', so I will search for another
> >> formalization of the meaning; And's looks more or less promising, and
> >> it also has the effect of giving a useful and o-gadri/e-gadri-like
> >> distinction between lo'e/loi'e and le'e/lei'e
> >
> >I'm glad of this, but it would be possible to define a le'ei counterpart
> >to lo'ei -- xorxes and I were discussing it yesterday.
>
> IIRC, xorxes defined the difference to be one of veridicality, i.e.
> 'broda lo'e brode' --> 'kairbroda le ka ce'u poi'i brode' and 'broda
> le'e brode'
> --> 'kairbroda le ka ce'u voi'i brode', which is an almost useless distinction
> and explains why he has always used only 'lo'e'

... but I gave a more useful definition for le'ei:

lo'ei broda = lo'ei lu'a lo'i broda
le'ei broda = lo'ei lu'a le'i broda

(recast from my previous formulation).

Analogously:

loi'e broda = loi'e lu'a lo'i broda
lei'e broda = loi'e lu'a le'i broda

su'o lo broda = lo lu'a lo'i broda
su'o le broda = lo lu'a le'i broda

ro lo broda = ro lo lu'a lo'i broda
ro le broda = ro lo lu'a le'i broda

& IMO:
loi broda = lu'o lo'i broda
lei broda = lu'o le'i broda

(The "IMO" is because I don't hold with the default piro/pisu'o.)

BTW, I wish there were a gadri series meaning "lu'o/lu'a/lu'i pa klesi be lo'i".
I'll have to think about defining some, and then see how useful
they are.

--And.