[lojban-beginners] Re: cmavo can be selbri?

[Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>]

On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 03:00:09PM -0700, Starling wrote:
> Whee, don't know if anyone listens to this list, 

287 subscribers as of a few minutes ago.  Welcome.  Several of us
make a point of answering questions when we can.

> I know that gismu can be selbri... seen enough examples of that.
> But the definition for 'du' calls it both cmavo and selbri.  

That's correct.

> Is this a valid question in lojban:
> 
> xu la xu cu du la cmavo

No, however "xu zo xu cu du la cmavo" is.  It doesn't do what you
want, though.  It asks if the word "xu" is perfectly equivalent to
something named "cmavo".  "du" almost never does what an English
speaker wants; I reccomend that beginning Lojbanists avoid it
utterly.

> If that is true, then can 'xu' itself be used as a selbri?  

No.

> Or is it just that some cmavo cannot be used as selbri, since they
> don't define a predicate structure?  

Exactly.  IIRC, only cmavo in the same category as du can be so
used; here's a list:

 bu'a           some selbri 1
 bu'e           some selbri 2
 bu'i           some selbri 3
 co'e           unspecif bridi
 du             same identity as
 go'a           recent bridi
 go'e           penultimate bridi
 go'i           last bridi
 go'o           future bridi
 go'u           earlier bridi
 mo             bridi ?
 nei            current bridi
 no'a           next outer bridi

> I understand that cmavo itself is a cmavo-establishment selbri, so
> it would be better to ask instead
> 
> xu zo'e cmavo la xu

The question that you want is "xu zo xu cu cmavo".  The question you
just asked, if it were grammatical (which it's not) would be "Is it
true that there is something in the same cmavo category as something
named "xu"?".

> But I was curious as to whether the 'du' cmavo could be used as a
> selbri.

Absolutely.

-Robin


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