|
Okay, first off, let me apologize again. I have managed to
mangle the lojban once more. The lo should have gone after the pu'e, not
after the ku'i. There were so many message flying back and forth I
typo'ed. Here is the clean copy of how it should read: la djan cusku lu mi djica lo bakni cidjrkari .e lo sluni nanba
li'u .i la meris cusku lu ku'i pu'e lo na'e cpina jukpa li'u And the answer to your first question
is: No, it just follows straight on. She is continuing the sentence
started by John. So the answer to second question is Yes, it's one
sentence that is spoken by two people acting together. Had Mary said ".i" at the
beginning, she would have been saying "However, by the process of
non-spicy cooking," which is a clause, but not a sentence in its own right
(It has no predicate), and may or may not relate to anything John said.
In actual conversation, of course, the two examples would have probably been
interpreted to have the same effective result, but that will not always be the
case. Here's a non-curry example: la djan cusku lu ko dunda fi mi fe le
xunre li'u .i la meris cusku lu karce li'u versus: la djan cusku lu ko dunda fi mi fe le
xunre li'u .i la meris cusku lu .i karce li'u The first is: John says,
"Give me the red…" Mary says, "….car".
(that is, I have finished your thought, you wanted me to give you the red
car. (trust me, as a spouse of 15 years, finishing another person's
sentences is automatic ;-) The second is: John says
"Give me the red…" Mary says, "Car!" (as
in, get out of the road you jerk!) But again, and in casual
conversation, ESPECIALLY if Mary's utterance is a complete sentence (bridi) or
more in its own right, the ".i" can be elided, and everyone
understands that Mary was starting her own thoughts, not finishing John's….
--gejyspa From:
lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of Vid Sintef Shouldn't
Mary's quote (the one without ".i" at the beginning), then, have some
connective to relate the sumti "lo pu'e na'e cpina jukpa" with
"lo bakni cidjrkari .e lo sluni nanba"? Can we say " mi djica lo bakni cidjrkari .e lo sluni
nanba ku'i lo pu'e na'e cpina jukpa" as presented in
the sequence of the quotes, "la
djan cusku lu mi djica lo bakni cidjrkari .e lo sluni nanba li'u .i la
meris cusku lu ku'i lo pu'e na'e cpina jukpa li'u"? On 5/18/07, Turniansky,
Michael [UNK] <MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com>
wrote: No, that's not John's sentence. John's sentence
(as finished by Mary) is (putting back in the "lo" I left out):
" mi djica lo bakni cidjrkari
.e lo sluni nanba ku'i lo pu'e na'e cpina jukpa"
Remember. This is two people talking.. One starts the
setnence, the other finishes it, exactly as in the English. If you and I
were in a room, and you said, "Hey, we know that girl" and I said, "From
the party last night", you would not say that together we are saying
"Hey, we know that girl Michael said, 'From the party last night' "
(which even in English makes no sense). You would say that together we
said, "Hey we know that girl from the party last night". I as the authoer of those sentence about John and Mary
are just reporting what THEY SAID. To the characters themselves, there is
no "John said"/"Mary said" in their lives.
Understand?
--Michael
"gejyspa" Turniansky From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org
[mailto:
lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On
Behalf Of Vid Sintef I see. On
5/18/07, Turniansky, Michael [UNK]
<MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com>
wrote: Remember that ".i" is not so much a sentence
_terminator_ as a sentence _separator_. It's often found at the
beginning of utterances to show that what you say has no connection to the
previous utterance (by you or another person) (and NOT usually at the
end). So the first sentence says: Ranjit says, "I want beef curry and onion
bread" The second says: Ranjit said, "Jhoti greeted me" Either could
have used or not used the .i at the beginning. It just makes it clear in
the course of conversation that you are not piling onto the previous
utterance. For example, consider this valid excahnge: la djan cusku lu mi djica lo bakni cidjrkari .e lo
sluni nanba li'u .i la meris cusku lu ku'i pu'e na'e cpina jukpa li'u John says, "I want beefy curre and onion bread" Mary says, "….but not cooked spicily". Without the ".i" in Mary's quote it continues
the sentence of John.
--gejyspa From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org
[mailto:
lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On
Behalf Of Vid Sintef Along
the course "Lojban For Beginners" I saw sentences with the direct
quotation word being followed by the sentence terminator ".i", like
this: |