[lojban-beginners] Re: The Prophet

["Vid Sintef" <picos.picos@gmail.com>]

On 8/7/07, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/7/07, Vid Sintef <picos.picos@gmail.com> wrote:
> > What about the interdefining relation between the NUs and ZAhOs?
>
> Such as?

The Reference Grammmar says in Chapter 11.12: "The specific cmavo of
NU and of ZAhO are mutually interdefining; the ZAhO contours were
chosen to fit the needs of the NU event types and vice versa."


> the difference between male and female is not unimportant,
> but we don't need a different gadri for {lo mamta} and for {lo patfu},
> because the sex difference is already contained in the meanings of
> {mamta} and {patfu}. We could have grammatical gender marked in the
> gadri in addition, like many languages do, but we don't.

I see your point.


> I'm not saying the distinction between the four NU cmavo is unimportant.
> What I'm saying is that the choice of cmavo (almost?) never adds anything
> to the meaning that the sub-bridi already has by itself.
> [...]
> Do za'i/pu'u/zu'o/mu'e ever add anything not already present in the
> meaning of the bridi that they transform?

I will try to examine that.
Let's compare these:

   mi pensi le nu xanka
   mi pensi le za'i xanka

While the former is comprehensive, embracing the whole circumstance in
which the cause of nervousness and the experiencer are involved, the
latter is focusing on the stat in which one is nervous. Say it is the
case of a person who is going to give some lecture for the first time
in front of many people, then the distinction between {nu} and {za'i}
may be worthy of attention:

{mi pensi le nu xanka} says that I'm thinking/worrying about the
overall happening of such an event in which I get and keep being
nervous during the lecture (therefore I must brace myself up in order
not to get nervous in the first place);

{mi pensi le za'i xanka}, on the other hand, says that I'm worrying
particularly about the state in which I am (will be) nervous, implying
that I know I won't be able to avoid such a state and that I'm rather
fearful of making a gaffe during the lecture because of such a state
(therefore I will have to talk carefully while being nervous).

The former may still possibly convey the latter's connotation, but,
because it (nu) is broader in sense, the reader is likely to miss such
subtleties. There if you replace the {nu} with {za'i}, the reader's
attention will be challenged.

This is how I see the {nu} and {za'i} for now.

mu'o mi'e vid