[lojban-beginners] Re: newbies troubles 2

[Qjet <lierorules@gmail.com>]

I would suggest writing original material rather than translation.

Try to think Lojbanically, and just use whatever words you know,

rather than worrying "what is the Lojban word for (X)."  Don't try to

say anything fancy at first!

 

 Thanks, I'll give that a try

 

Lojban expresses most of what is expressed in English through sentence tone

using cmavo, particularly the UI cmavo.  Translating UI cmavo into

English words almost always sounds bizarre-- they're usually more

properly translated by tone!  For instance "zo'o" means "I'm saying

this humorously," which is pretty silly to say in words in English,

but we promise you that "zo'o" is a common word around these parts &

it really does serve the same purpose as a "humorous tone" does in

English.

 

I always figured that translating UI cmavo like "zo'o" to "I'm saying this humorously" was inaccurate. The exact translation is " :P " right?

 

.a'o		" <=)"
.au		" :O~ "
.a'u		" o.- "
.ie		" <=)"
.i'e		" <=) "
.ii		"=@"
.iu		"<3 "
.oi		" >=| >=( "
.ua		" <=o "
.ue		" O.o "
.u'e		" o.o "
.ui		"=) =D"
.u'i		"=D =P"
.u'u		"I'm sorry!" "<=("
.uu		"<=("

 

limited only by my selection of characters

 

One sarcastic device that translates perfectly well into Lojban from

English is English's "...NOT!" as in:

I go to the market... NOT!

.i mi klama le zarci ... naku sai!

 

I suppose but that might be left for the little lojbanists on the playground (one day?)

then again, I suppose that's malgl...ci... something... .oi ...

 

But you've already said how to be sarcastic. When someone says

something you disagree with, take that statement to its logical

conclusion in absurdity, using a condescending tone. They have a model

of you in their minds, that you are not a dumb person who would

believe an obvious absurdity. They recognize the logical absurdity and

perhaps the tone of voice, causing them to suddenly bridge a gap in

their mind between your words and you real mental state. From a

certain perspective, that phenomenon is not really linguistic, it's

entirely social, based on the models we make of each other's state of

mind. It makes no difference which language you're speaking. You can

do it exactly the same in Lojban or English.

 

 

Thank you I like that assessment the most, you are right now that i think about it. While tone is often used as a tool in languages to alter an _expression_. It's important to remember that lojban inspires to express itself without the use of tone, tone will always be a factor. If you say something really aggressively, yet sugar coat the paragraph with ".i'e"'s and ".ui"'s you'd probably wont come off as insincere. 

 

I guess the way we pronounce something may be unique to languages and cultures, but when you get down to it the base emotions are all the same. Food for thought!

 

Thanks for the help

 

--

-Alex Bruce (Qjet)