[lojban-beginners] Re: newbies troubles 2

[mungojelly@ixkey.info]

Quoting Alex Bruce <lierorules@gmail.com>:

> I was thinking maybe some exercises in translation would help. Does anyone
> have some paragraphs or anything that translate well into lojban?
>
> Or maybe you have another strategy I can use?

I would suggest writing original material rather than translation.   
Try to think Lojbanically, and just use whatever words you know,  
rather than worrying "what is the Lojban word for (X)."  Don't try to  
say anything fancy at first!  For instance you may know that "gerku"  
is a gismu for "dog" (if not, you're learning right now,  
congratulations!), and you probably know "klama" from it being used as  
an example all over the place.  You can make a bunch of sentences out  
of those:

mi klama lo gerku -- I travel to the dog.
 \--> se invert that: lo gerku cu se klama mi
 \--> or move the selbri: mi lo gerku cu klama
lo gerku cu klama mi -- The dog travels to me.
 \--> se invert that: mi cu se klama lo gerku
 \--> or move the selbri: lo gerku mi klama

If you learn a new word, like "sepi'o" means "using the tool" (a BAI  
cmavo), use it a bunch of times (at least in your mind) to try it out:

dei jufra sepi'o lo'u sepi'o li'u -- This sentence uses "sepi'o"

mi klama lo gerku sepi'o lo plise -- I go to the dog using the apple  
(maybe it gives me the energy to walk?! whatever!)

ko siclu sepi'o le ctebi be fi do -- Whistle using your lips!


> Lojban does offer a way to sort of say the quoted example but like any joke
> is ruined If you tell people the answer, sarcasm is ruined if you let on
> that it is sarcasm (other than through a condescending tone)

Well you should understand that a "sarcastic tone" is part of the  
expressive repertoire of the English language.  Tone as a discursive  
device seems natural to a native English speaker and not like part of  
the language, but actually you have learned English sentence tones  
from hearing English.  Chinese, of course, uses tone differently!   
(Tone also serves discursive purposes in Chinese, but has to interact  
with the strong tones of syllables.)  Even in other European  
languages, you can notice that there are different sentence tone  
shapes with subtly different meanings than those in English.

Lojban-- and no one is saying that Lojban isn't weird here ;)--  
expresses most of what is expressed in English through sentence tone  
using cmavo, particularly the UI cmavo.  Translating UI cmavo into  
English words almost always sounds bizarre-- they're usually more  
properly translated by tone!  For instance "zo'o" means "I'm saying  
this humorously," which is pretty silly to say in words in English,  
but we promise you that "zo'o" is a common word around these parts &  
it really does serve the same purpose as a "humorous tone" does in  
English.  ".uiro'a" means "I am feeling a social happiness!" -- if you  
said that in words in English, you would not be feeling a social  
happiness about the way that people looked at you :), but ".uiro'a" is  
a very sensible thing to say in Lojban.

One sarcastic device that translates perfectly well into Lojban from  
English is English's "...NOT!" as in:

I go to the market... NOT!
.i mi klama le zarci ... naku sai!


mu'o mi'e bret.