[lojban-beginners] Re: newbies troubles 2

["Matt Arnold" <matt.mattarn@gmail.com>]

On Dec 9, 2007 4:13 PM, Alex Bruce <lierorules@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My progress in lojban has being slow going.
>
> The flashcards I've received I'm making poor progress on, as it stands I've
> managed to learn maybe 10 selbri. I'm getting better with the structure of
> lojban but I can't seem to get the bulk down.
>
> I was thinking maybe some exercises in translation would help. Does anyone
> have some paragraphs or anything that translate well into lojban?
>
> Or maybe you have another strategy I can use?
>
> Also I'm wondering about sarcasm, my favorite part of communication.
>
> An example in the beginners guide goes like this:
>
> .i .u'ipei do farlu le pesxu
>  You fell into the mud! Funny, eh?
>
> could well be ru'e: "Kinda..." Then again, it could also be naicai:
> "Absolutely not, and I shall thank you never to mention it in my presence
> again." (Allowing for some latitude in translation...)
>
> this I get, but the principle of sarcasm is to illustrate something such
> that the absurdity of it serves to show the concept as wrong. Could you said
> cai then as a kind of way to say "Oh yes extremely funny L"
>
> Lojban does offer a way to sort of say the quoted example but like any joke
> is ruined If you tell people the answer, sarcasm is ruined if you let on
> that it is sarcasm (other than through a condescending tone)

But you've already said how to be sarcastic. When someone says
something you disagree with, take that statement to its logical
conclusion in absurdity, using a condescending tone. They have a model
of you in their minds, that you are not a dumb person who would
believe an obvious absurdity. They recognize the logical absurdity and
perhaps the tone of voice, causing them to suddenly bridge a gap in
their mind between your words and you real mental state. From a
certain perspective, that phenomenon is not really linguistic, it's
entirely social, based on the models we make of each other's state of
mind. It makes no difference which language you're speaking. You can
do it exactly the same in Lojban or English.

-Eppcott