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[lojban-beginners] Re: pe'u e'osai





On 8/5/08, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
Can anybody tell me if there is there any difference, no matter how subtle,
between {pe'u) and {e'osai}?  When would one use one or the other?
Likewise (ki'e) and {i'o}.


The first main difference I can point out to you is both grammatical and semantic, which is that {pe'u} and {ki'e} are in selma'o (se cmavo) COI.  That means that they not only change the mood of the sentence, but also *address* it, usually to someone present.  So for instance: 

"mi surla .i'o" -- I relax, which I appreciate and am grateful for. 
"mi surla ki'e" -- I relax-- thanks [someone, who's probably present, or is otherwise addressable]! 

Another difference is how quickly & deeply the speaking community has adopted those various words.  They've all come and gone in popularity over time, but I would say that on the whole {ki'e} is much more popular than {.i'o} (though {.i'o} has gained a bit of attention recently), and {.e'o} is much more popular than {pe'u} (though {pe'u} has gained a bit of attention recently).

One important historical difference is that {.e'o} is used in the famous saying ".e'o sai ko sarji la .lojban." (which probably causes {.e'o} to take a {sai} more often than other UIs..)

There's a relationship in fact between all three of {pe'u}, {.e'o}, and {ko}.  {pe'u} addresses someone, putting them into the sentence as the addressee, and is clearly asking them for something.  Definitely a sense of {ga'i nai}, at least for me.  {.e'o} changes the mood of the statement, giving everything about it a requestiness.  It's kind of near {.a'o} in my mind-- {.a'o} you hope the bridi will happen, {.e'o} you hope that someone will help make it happen.  {ko} actually puts the listener into the bridi, and clarifies the others-- it shows exactly what the request/command/desire is.  (Otherwise you're guessing, and {gau ko} is usually the right guess.)

You didn't ask, but {.e'u} differs from {.e'o} to my mind in that the request is more for the benefit of the listener than the speaker.  {.e'u} is most often used with {do} instead of {ko}, in my experience.  I would say even that {ko} has a bit of an implication of {.e'o} in it-- {ko} means not just "this is what I think you should/will/ought/must do", but "this is what I am requesting/ordering/asking for you to do."

I don't really understand {.e'i}, can someone talk more about that?  Is it like "must", "have to"?

mu'o mi'e se ckiku