[lojban-beginners] Re: lojban meaning approximately "posture"?

[David Gowers <00ai99@gmail.com>]

On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 10:48 PM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/5/1 David Gowers <00ai99@gmail.com>:
>> ko seltra le cutne mo'iga'u .e betfu mo'iga'u .e tupyjanco mo'i ni'a je ti'a
>
> The x1 of "seltra" is the x2 of "tarti" i.e. posture. "ko" itself
> cannot be a posture. You could just say "ko tarti ...".

Oops, I'm still being too literal. Thanks.

>
> The connective "e" is for sumtis. "betfu" is a selbri. You need a
> gadri (descriptor) to make it a sumti. The same for "tupyjanco".
>
> I'm not sure about the tags (mo'iga'u, mo'i ni'a je ti'a). They are
> part of the main bridi itself, not exclusively of the individual
> terbris (arguments), unless you join them up with something like BE or
> GOI. You could say:
>
>  le cutne be mo'iga'u .e le betfu be mo'iga'u .e le tupyjanco be mo'i
> ni'a je ti'a

>
> Another possibility is to group each pair as a termset, either with
> the afterthought "ce'e" or the forethought "nu'i ... nu'u":
>
>  le cutne ce'e mo'iga'u pe'e je le betfu ce'e mo'iga'u pe'e je le
> tupyjanco ce'e mo'i ni'a je ti'a

This gives me a better feeling (in that it makes more sense in terms
of my limited understanding of CLL materials). Both were very
enlightening though, thanks a lot!
Termsets seem very useful :)

>
> That is:
>
>  [ le cutne ce'e mo'iga'u ] pe'e je [ le betfu ce'e mo'iga'u ] pe'e je
> [ le tupyjanco ce'e mo'i ni'a je ti'a ]
>
> "je" is used instead of "e" because it's not sumtis that are
> connected, according to CLL. And "pe'e" marks the connective as
> joining termsets. There is a confusing example in CLL, however:
>
> 14.15)  la djeimyz. ce'e la meris.
>        pe'e .e la djordj. ce'e la martas. prami
>    James [plus] Mary
>        [joint] and George [plus] Martha loves.
>
> "e" is used instead of "je". I don't know why, given that "je" is used in:

My understanding is that pe'e .e and pe'e je are identical in meaning.

This is because .e is [sumti] afterthought AND, je is [tanru]
afterthought AND, and, AFAICS, pe'e just replaces the square-bracketed
word with [termset], so to speak -- in the same way that 1*0 and 2*0
both equal 0.

Perhaps a note should be added to CLL to that effect.

David