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Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: "mi prami do" or "mi cu prami do" ?



On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 10:14 AM, najrut <ruler11post@gmail.com> wrote:
This makes things even more strange.
Now tell me what is the difference between
"lo mi gerku cu xamgu" and "lo me mi gerku cu xamgu" ?
The first one is translated as
"lo any/some mi gerku dog(s) [of] I, me)2 cu is/does «3xamgu being good»3]1"
and the second one as
"lo any/some (3me amongst those that are mi I, me [type-of] gerku dog(s))3)2 cu is/does «4xamgu being good»4]1"

Yes, "lo mi gerku" meaning "my dog" is quite handy, but why it breaks the logic of anything learnt before ?
mi gerku means "I'm a dog" and when it is used as a sumti in the phrase
<lo mi gerku cu xamgu> 
it must mean <"I'm a dog" is good> whatever that means.

You're creating a rule that isn't there. {lo ... [ku]} converts a selbri into a sumti. {... mi gerku ...} can't selbri, so clearly something else is going on. And what's going on is that between the {lo} and the selbri, any sumti can be interposed, so {lo <sumti> <selbri> [ku]} is always the same as {lo pe <sumti> [ge'u] <selbri> [ku]} and {lo <selbri> pe <sumti> [ge'u] [ku]}. It's true that you wouldn't be able to determine that if you didn't know it, but your proposed meaning couldn't be assumed either.
 
"me mi gerku" (my dog) has much more sense as it clear resembles "prenu gerku" (person's dog).

{prenu gerku} could mean "is a person's dog", but that's far from the only meaning I can see for it. It sounds more to me like "is a dog that is/acts like a person" or "is a dog that gets along well with people" (cf English "people person"), or something else.
 
I feel that the "rule" of transforming "I am" into "mine" when adding "lo" is absolutely alien to other lojbanic rules.

{mi} never ever means "I am"; it always means "I" or "me" (since the English distinction between those isn't one preserved in Lojban). The "am" part of {mi gerku} meaning "I am a dog" is because {gerku} means (in this context) "am a dog". Similarly, {mi} doesn't mean "mine", it means "me", with the (implicit} {pe} being the "associated with" part.
 

On Thursday, August 4, 2011 6:10:49 PM UTC+4, Kevin Reid wrote:
On Aug 4, 2011, at 6:47, najrut wrote:

> But ... is it anyway possible to form tanru with pro-sumti included ?

It is possible as Jorge Llambías explained, with "me <sumti>" which is a conversion to the selbri "x1 is <sumti>".

  dei         me mi    notci
  This [is a] Kevinish message.  

--
Kevin Reid                                  <http://switchb.org/kpreid/>

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