[lojban-beginners] Re: I want an apple

[ianek <janek37@gmail.com>]

Of course, I must've been out of my mind when I wrote that. Of course
{lo plise jai se djica mi} or {mi se jai se djica lo plise} (ugh!).

On Nov 30, 1:29 am, Ian Johnson <blindbrav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> {jai djica} is the wrong way of doing the raising, because the x1 is not an
> event. The proper way of doing the raising with the x1 of djica as the x1
> of the result is unfortunately extremely clunky: {se jai se djica}.
>
> Philosophically however you're right.
>
> mu'o mi'e latros
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 5:48 PM, ianek <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think it's because in natural languages "I want an apple" is a
> > mental abbreviation. Lojban tries to deal with implicit things like
> > that. As you quoted, wanting an object is wanting to possess or do
> > something else with an object. So it's more logical definition to
> > define {djica} in one way instead of making it ambiguous. You have to
> > simple ways to overcome it: {mi jai djica lo plise}, {mi ctidji lo
> > plise}, {mi djica tu'a lo plise}, {mi djica lo nu citka lo plise} or
> > even {mi plisyctidji} :)
>
> > mu'o mi'e ianek
>
> > On Nov 29, 11:19 pm, MorphemeAddict <lytl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Someone (David Gowers?) recently (Aug. 17, 2011?) wrote:
>
> > > "You have an object in troci x2, but troci x2 is an abstraction. This is
> > > the same problem as with {mi djica lo plise} -- you don't desire an
> > apple,
> > > you desire to possess an apple, or eat an apple... This is known as sumti
> > > raising. You need to put an abstraction in x2, then you will not be
> > > sumti-raising -- and will make sense, besides."
>
> > > I've wondered about this before. Why is wanting an object called
> > > sumti-raising? Why must the object (x2?) of {djica} be an abstraction? Is
> > > it simply because that's how the word was defined? If so, why was it
> > > defined that way?
>
> > > stevo
>
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