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Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Possessives



There are even more than ten. The point is that our pronouns we use are highly ambigous.

If I say: "Sam met Mark. He was sad" who is the sad one? You can't tell.

In Lojban you can assign a pro-sumti to make this explicit:

if Sam was the sad one: { la .sem. goi ko'a penmi la .mark. .i ko'a badri }
if Mark was the sad one: { la .sem. penmi la .mark. goi ko'a .i ko'a badri }

Once assigned, {ko'a} will always have the same referent unless it is reassigned.

But you can also simply use the first letter of the sumti as a pro-sumti:

{ la .sam. penmi la .mark. i sy. badri }
{ la .sam. penmi la .mark. i my. badri }

The rule here is that a letter refers with the last sumti that started with that letter.

You can also assign letters, in which case they retain their referent throughout the text. If you say:

{ la .sam. goi sy. penmi la .mark. }

the letter {sy} will always refer to Sam in the following text.

It is subject to discussion whether using an unassigned pro-sumti is to be considered "good Lojban" or not.

If you structure your Lojban sentences carefully, you'll see that you won't need the third person much.

For example: 
{ la .sam. poi badri cu penmi la .mark. }





On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 11:45 PM, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.net> wrote:
How can there possibly be ten thirdcomperson prosumti? Do they all mean he, she, it, or they, or is there some hidden meanings I didn't know about? What are the actual words?a

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 24, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 3:08 PM, ianek <janek37@gmail.com> wrote:
Unless I'm wrong, {lo mi kumfa} and {lo kumfa pe mi} have exactly the
same meaning.

They do. {lo mi kumfa} is literally just shorthand for {lo kumfa pe mi}.
 
There are also other ways, but those listed by remod are the most
important.
And, you misspelled "sumti" as "su,ti". No need to confuse Annie more
than necessary (zo'o)
Capital V in {ko'V} and {fo'V} means any vowel of a, e, i, o, u
(there's a total of ten third person pro-sumti, not counting
letterals).

mu'o mi'e ianek

On 24 Lis, 22:36, Remo Dentato <rdent...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For possessive you have many option.
>
> 1. using {pe} to indicate an association: "my room (where I sleep)" -> { lo
> kumfa pe mi }
> 2. using {po} to indicate possession: "my room (that I own)" ->  { lo kumfa
> po mi }
> 3. using one of the personal pro-sumti: "my room (in an unspecified sense"
> -> { lo mi kunfa }
> 4. using the dedicated su,ti place like in "my father" -> { lo patfu be mi }
>
>  The role of pronouns is played, in Lojban, by the pro-sumti. Note that
> they are not exactly the same! It's better not to try to translate English
> concepts directly into Lojban. It's much better to understand how things
> work in Lojban and then try to use them to express what you want to say.
>
>  If you're just asking for personal pronouns the first and second person is
> covered by:
>
>  {mi} -> me (the speaker)
>  {do} -> you  (the listener)
>  {ko} -> you (imperative)
>  {do'o} -> you and others but not me
>  {mi'o} -> you and me but not others
>  {ma'a} -> me, you and others
>  {mi'a} -> me and others but not you
>
> For third person one uses the assignable pro-sumti {ko'V} and {fo'V} or a
> the first letter of the sumti you want to refer to.
>
> I saw a dog. it was running -> {mi viska lo gerku goi ko'a .i ko'a bajra}
> I saw a dog. it was running -> {mi viska lo gerku .i gy. bajra}
>
> co'o mu'o mi'e la remod
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Annie <park.an...@asb.gaggle.net> wrote:
> > How do you make a word possessive in Lojban? Also, what are the pronouns
> > in Lojban?
>
> > Sent from my iPod
>
> > *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind.
>
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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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*** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind.

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