On Saturday, February 2, 2013 2:45:47 AM UTC+4, Ian Johnson wrote:Allowing for implicit raising leads to issues when you go to use articles to extract places from such bridi. For example, you get {lo jenca} and now if you allow for implicit raising you can't tell whether it's an event or a concrete object. This makes it border on useless by itself because you don't even know what sort of thing it is. Making the distinction with tu'a/jai is quick and clarifies matters. (That said, the lack of consistency in what the gimste deems to be raising and what isn't is a bit of a problem. fenki is an example of this.){lo se prami be mi} and {lo jai se prami be mi} is even a "worse" example.mi'e la latro'a mu'oOn Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 5:30 PM, Judson Lester <nya...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
What would be the problem with "do jenca mi"? I suppose there's some elided abstraction that I could use in the x1 place to mean "some event related to you" - but why would that be neccesary?
Simply because the English "You shocked me!" actually means "What you just did shocked me!". This has to do with the issue "sumti raising", which has been bandied about countless times throughout the years.I've got two follow on questions, then:
- The easy one: "tu'a do jenca mi" would be semantically valid, though? Maybe a little vague, but if you've just punched me in the face, maybe clear enough and readier to hand than "le nu do darxi fo le mi flira cu jenca mi"
- More philosophical: granted that it doesn't make *sense* most of the time that do jenca - because people aren't shocking - why isn't the convention that such places raise their sumti automatically? Or is the idea that maybe there could be a brain-interacting object that fills the space?
Come to think, would it be reasonable to say something like "lo sidbo jenca mi" or would it still need an abstraction related to 'lo nu sidbo fi mi' ? #2 in play as a "why not?" if not.Judson--To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com.
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