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Re: [lojban-beginners] FA KU

I have to agree with aionys here.  As you correctly point, the CLL says "that an already-filled place is skipped".  "fi ku" is not "filled", however.  It is empty.  It's merely mentioned that a slot exists, but it does not fill it.  Hence "FA KU" are  basically semantically meaningless structures, unlike FA zo'e 

  There are, however, of course, lotsa bugs with jboski (why, oh why, did genrei have to go?), such as not liking LI structures at the end of an utterance that are not terminate with lo'o (i.e. "mi mitre li re" will bomb)
                  --gejyspa


On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 7:00 AM, guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com> wrote:


Le dimanche 7 avril 2013 19:34:31 UTC+9, aionys a écrit :
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:21 AM, guskant <gusni...@gmail.com> wrote:
Le dimanche 7 avril 2013 16:10:25 UTC+9, la gleki a écrit :
On Sunday, April 7, 2013 10:49:03 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:32 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, April 7, 2013 1:29:55 AM UTC+4, guskant wrote:
Le dimanche 7 avril 2013 06:12:29 UTC+9, LordDraqo a écrit :
Did you try "fi la lojban ku tavla"?


I don't need to try it, but {fi la lojban ku tavla} means "talk about Lojban". I meant {fiku} with no sumti should be x3, and a terbri next to it should be x4, but jbofi'e doesn't parse it as I expected.

I was wondering about that in past as well. I can't find that thread now but the funny thing is that 
{fizo'e la lojban tavla} does what you need.

so does

{fo la.lojban. tavla}

and

{la.lojban. ve tavla}

I guess guskant is searching for stylistic diversity which is indeed present here.
Like
in {fizo'e la lojban tavla} {la lojban} is tavla4.
But in {fizo'e tavla la lojban} {la lojban} is now tavla2 !!!


ki'e gleki for the info. My problem is however a bit different from yours.

From your problem, I see jbofi'e forgets the places assigned by FA when a selbri appears, and after the selbri, the default place structure is applied. I would like to say it bothers mi'a who are not familiar with European languages and should be a bug, but my actual point is something other.

According to jbofi'e, {fi ku la lojban tavla} means "Lojban is talker."
Even if {fi ku} doesn't mean /anything/, it is not a valid reason for ignoring the usual rule "that after a FA-tagged sumti, any sumti following it occupy the places numerically succeeding it, subject to the proviso that an already-filled place is skipped" described in CLL9.3.
Even {fi zi'o la lojban tavla} is parsed as "talk in Lojban" that I expected. Why not {fi ku}?

I would say, because {fi ku} is /not/ a FA-tagged sumti. Which it isn't. It isn't a sumti at all.


OK, from yacc point of view, I agree with you. From a semantic point of view, however, FA KU should be an implicit _expression_ of some possible sumti. In fact, for other sumtcita like BAI or tense, the usage of sumtcita means a vague _expression_ (CLL9.9). Both modal-tense and FA are mod_head_490 of yacc. They should have the same semantic rule.

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