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Re: [lojban-beginners] how do you use sumka'i to refer to an outer bridi?



On 22/04/2014 18:12, neit wrote:
coi rodo
 
A good example that I'm trying to wrap my brain around is the following:  Suppose I want to say, "Who wants my dog?"  bau la lojban - .i ma djica lo nu ____ ponse lo mi gerku
 
I want a sumka'i in the ____ to refer to the "ma" in the main bridi.  How can I do that?  Can I use the reflexive sumka'i vo'a?  (.i ma djica lo nu vo'a ponse lo mi gerku)?  Or do those reflexive sumka'i only refer to their native bridi, or can they "reach-out" and refer to the main bridi of which they are a part?
 
ki'e pu'o sidju
 
mi'e neit mu'o

{vo'a} always refers back to the first sumti of the main (= outmost) bridi of the sentence. Therefore, {vo'a} is perfecty fine in this sentence:

{ma djica lo nu vo'a ponse lo mi gerku}

In this very case, {ri} probably works too, but I'm not 100% sure, as {ri} doesn't work with some pronouns like {mi}, and the CLL doesn't provide a comprehensive list of the pronouns excluded by {ri}.
Nevertheless I don't see any justifiable reason to preclude using {ri} from refering back to {ma}. :)


As for the general question of how to refer back to a sumti used in an outer bridi (but not in the main/outermost one, for which you can use {vo'a} and friends), you can use {ri / ra} or the wonderful brika'i {no'a}:
{mi djuno lo du'u  lo do pendo cu djica lo nu  [ri / lo no'a ku] ponse lo gerku}
= "I know that [ your friend wants [ he has/possesses a/the dog ] ]"

In the above sentence, both "ri" and "lo no'a ku" refers to "lo do pendo".

• lo no'a (ku) = the x1 of the next outer bridi
• lo se no'a (ku) = the x2 of the next outer bridi
• lo te no'a (ku) = the x3 of the next outer bridi

You can also use {lo bi'unai [selbri] (ku)} for refering back to something previously mentioned that is/does [selbri]. For example, {lo bi'unai pendo (ku)} = "the/an aformentioned friend".

mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o


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