Re: [lojban-beginners] translation check on zo-related quote

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

2011/2/17 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Didn't catch that because it's a weird construction.
>> What is the actual meaning of {mi broda je brode} and how does it differ
>> from {mi broda gi'e brode}? Obviously it has to have a different meaning
>> because of place structure defaults and tanru-ness, but what is this I don't
>> even ^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w^w
>
>   "mi broda je broda" means that I am member of those things that are both
> "broda" and "brode".  Of it course that is also true iff "mi broda gi'e
> brode" - "I am broda" and "I am brode".  The first construction basically
> defines a set of things that is the intersection of two sets, and then
> asserts my place in that intersection, whereas the second construction
> asserts my membership in the two sets independently, and says that I am in
> both.

Another important difference is in their place structure. The place
structure of "broda gi'e brode" is fairly clear:

(shared-sumti) broda (sumti-for-broda) gi'e brode (sumti-for-brode)
vau (shared-sumti).

OTOH, nobody really knows what the place structure for "broda je
brode" is, other than for the x1 which works as gejyspa says.
Especially when broda and brode don't share identical structures.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

 

  That is a very good point, and perhaps an exploitable one.

 

  For example, could we define the x2 of "broda JA brode" to be the x2 of both independently i.e. "x1 broda JA brode x2" (or "x1 x2 broda JA brode") -> "x1 broda GIhA brode vau x2" (this certainly seems to be the way that jbofi'e understands it. )?  That would lead to interesting things like: mi bajra jo farlu lo bisli po'o ("I am (runner-iff-faller) only on ice" -> Ice is the only surface I fall on when I'm running on that surface, and I fall on the ice when I'm running on ice. 

      --gejyspa

 

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