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Re: [lojban-beginners] vlastezba: First beta version released!
Here are the definitions of consonants and vowels from the PEG file:
consonant <- voiced
/ unvoiced
/ syllabic
syllabic <- l / m / n / r
voiced <- b / d / g / j / v / z
unvoiced <- c / f / k / p / s / t / x
vowel <- a / e / i / o / u
You'll have to ask another question. :-)
ybu is valid, it being the y letteral in selma'o BY (I believe it has
also been two words, Y+BU, in the past though I could be wrong about
that. For your purposes either definition is probably ok.)
Will you quote the phrase you're referring to regarding pauses? I
see this one:
The cmavo “.u'e” begins with a vowel, and like all words
beginning with a vowel, requires a pause (represented by “.”)
before it.
I understand "represented" to be different than "required." In
particular, these lines are all the same:
.a'e.i'o
a'e.i'o
a'e i'o
.a'e i'o
In that '.' and ' ' are the same. In section 3.3 there is this:
Technically, the period is an optional reminder to the reader of a
mandatory pause that is dictated by the rules of the language;
because these rules are unambiguous, a missing period can be
inferred from otherwise correct text. Periods are included only as
an aid to the reader.
A period also may be found apparently embedded in a word. When
this occurs, such a written string is not one word but two,
written together to indicate that the writer intends a unitary
meaning for the compound. It is not really necessary to use a
space between words if a period appears.
Given my understanding of the above, I believe your requiring a
period to represent this pause to be in error.
I will rerun my baseline and reply back with it.
-Alan
On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 10:42:40PM +0200, Johan Pretorius wrote:
> Hi Alan
>
> I thought I would have a quick look before going to bed... and it seems
> that the troublesome word forms you mention are mostly (99%) cmavo that
> don't start with a consonant.
>
> When writing vlastezba, I tried to adhere as strictly as possible to the
> word forms specified in the CLL, in section 4.2: In there, all cmavo that
> start with a vowel should have a dot pre-pended. So the forms, as I
> understand them, are as follows, where any two adjacent vowels may or may
> not have a ' inserted between them:
> .V
> .y.
> CV
> .VV
> CVV
> Cy
> CVVV (experimental use only)
>
> The only dot I could find in cmavo.txt was in "na.a", which seems like a
> mistake to me. Anyway, I took cmavo.txt, prepended dots to all lines
> starting with a vowel, ran it again - this time vlastezba choked on "ybu".
> I remember now that I hadn't defined y as either a consonant or a vowel,
> because the CLL was clear that it is NOT a vowel, but it wasn't at all
> clear that it was a consonant. Indeed, if "ybu" is a valid cmavo, that
> would seem to imply that "y" is a vowel, yet I clearly recall reading a
> list of vowels that excluded "y", with the explanation that it isn't
> really a vowel.
>
> So I removed the "ybu" line from the file, and this time it parsed okay
> (see attached cmavo_dots.stdout). Do you mind running the attached
> cmavo_dots.txt through jbogenturfa'i to see if we get fewer than 80
> discrepancies this time (I would do it myself, but I don't have a copy of
> jbogenturfa'i or, for that matter, a copy of Linux)
>
> So I have three questions:
> 1) Is "y" a vowel or a consonant?
> 2) Are dots before vowel-only cmavo required or not?
> 3) If the dots are required, am I being reasonable to expect them to be
> present?
>
> -Johan
>
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 2:35 PM, .alyn.post.
> <[1]alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
>
> vlastezba crashes on 80 of the 2433 tests. For the remaining tests,
> it produces results consistent with jbogenturfa'i. I suspect most
> of these tests are crashing on the same or nearly the same problem;
> they're clustered in the input around certain word forms.
>
> --
> Johan Pretorius
> Cell: 0829268327
> [2]pretoriusjf@gmail.com
>
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> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> 2. mailto:pretoriusjf@gmail.com
--
.i ma'a lo bradi ku penmi gi'e du
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