Re: [lojban-beginners] mi kakne lo bajra

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Can someone clarify why:
>> sentence A:
>> { mi kakne lo bajra }
>> is not as good as
>> sentence B:
>> { mi kakne lo nu bajra }
>>
>> Assuming the rationale is that "nu" is necessary to mark an event/state, it
>> seems to me that since (event/state) is inherent in the x2 argument of
>> kakne, that adding the 'nu' would be superfluous.
>> Assuming the argument is that it becomes nonsensical to say sentence A, i.e.
>> "You can't say I can runner," I would think that argument is based on
>> English concepts of proper grammar, and that there should be no a priori
>> reason something like "I can runner" is "nonsensical."
>> Or is there some other veciski?
>>
>
>  Since the x2 of kakne is an event, the first sentence says you are
> capable of some "running event".  That is, some event that runs
> (whatever that maybe intended to mean), not an event OF running.  For
> a less confusing contrast:
> a)mi kakne lo drata
>
> b)mi kakne lo nu drata
>
>  The first says "I am capable of other things".  The second second
> says "I am capable of being different"
>
>                 --gejyspa
>

  To clarify a bit (I was heading out the door when I was wrote the
above) -- kakne means "x1 can do an event/state x2  under conditions
x3".  X2 IS an event or state, regardless of what it might be.  If x2
starts with "lo nu", "lo za'i", etc. then it's essentially superfluous
(other than to clarify if it's an event or a state).  But if it
doesn't such as "lo bajra", then it is an event or a state AS WELL AS
being a runner.

  I also might not have been very clear what the difference of my a)
and b) above were.   So let me give it some context:

a)  mi bajra .i mi kakne lo drata (I am capable of a event which is different)

b)  mi bajra .i mi kakne lo nu drata.  (I am capable of the event of
me being different)

  a) I am running.  I can do something else (besides running).
  b) I am running.  I can (also) be something other (than what I am,
presumably, but not necessarily referring to runningness).

           --gejyspa

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