Re: [lojban-beginners] oh my god, please make it stop, it hurts so much! (was: Re: Questions on the sounds chosen for Lojban)

[Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>]

I think you might also be right Ivo.  I pronounce "pipe" as a one syllable word.  If I slow my pronunciation way way down it does come out like p....y....i....p but maybe I'm just shortening the length of the vowel.

The paper had a good way of illustrating this phenomenon.  In "writer" and "rider" the "t" and "d" are reduced to a flap (I think it was a flap) and so the two words are indistinguishable except that since the "i" of "rider" is followed by a voiced consonant it exhibits the "canadian raising" effect.  I don't know how to describe that change in sound.  What I do know is that the "i" in "writer" and "rider" sounds different to me... at least when I say it anyway.

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com> wrote:

On 23 January 2011 18:04, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

I see what you mean now timos about how it's bad idea to talk about pronunciations in terms of english words.  Just because I pronounce pie and pipe like {pai} and {pyip} does not mean that all americans do the same.  In fact, according to the abstract in the paper that Oren found, I may very well be in the minority.

You are the first person I've ever heard of who pronounces "pipe" like [ˈpəip]. If you really do pronounce it like you say you do then what you're saying is a two-syllable word, so are you sure that what you're saying is not actually [ˈpəjp] or [ˈpəːjp]? Nevertheless, a schwa in the pronunciation of "pipe" is extremely unusual, more so because in English schwa is never stressed, and the syllable in "pipe" is a stressed syllable. The usual pronunciation of the word is [ˈpajp] or [ˈpaːjp].
 

Well, I'm off to learn IPA

A good idea.

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