Re: [lojban-beginners] Implied {ko}

Ok, after thinking about it for a while, I think I finally understand what about it makes me so squeamish.

For as long as I have been studying lojban I have been operating under the [apparently] false belief that a selbri sets the claim and sumti essentially just add specificity. i.e. if somebody says {citka} then I assume that that person is making a positive claim about "eating". If somebody says {na citka} then I assume that that person is making is making a positive claim about "not eating". I've been assuming that any sumti I add just adds more information (but does NOT change the fundamental claim).

So {mi citka no da} = {mi na citka} feels funny because something that should just be adding more information is actually changing the fundamental claim. I guess that's wrong though.

mi na citka noda sounds like "I don't eat nothing".... does that mean {mi citka roda}?! oops, I accidentally the whole universe.

On Jan 6, 2011 7:18 AM, "Jorge Llambías" <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 11:28 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ok, so maybe it was a poor example. How about {lo se danlu be lo gerku cu
>> se zbasu zo'e lo lanbi joi lo djacu joi li'o}.
>
> (You need some sumti after the last "joi". "li'o" is a UI, not a KOhA.)
>
>> If I said this in a room
>> full of biologists the obvious {zo'e} is {zi'o}. I seem to remember seeing
>> an example like this somewhere or other.
>
> When you say things like "the obvious {zo'e} is {zi'o}" you are
> thinking that the word "zo'e" is replacing some other word. But it is
> not. "zo'e" is a word with referents, provided by the context. "zi'o"
> is not such a thing.
>
>> So are you saying that {zo'e} is inappropriate here?
>
> I would say "zbasu" is the one that is inappropriate, since that is
> not the relationship that they want to claim.
>
>> Also, I'm a little uneasy about the fact that it sounds like you're saying
>> that {mi citka noda} is something very similar to {mi na citka}.
>
> What about it makes you uneasy? They are indeed very similar,
> practically identical in meaning:
>
> no da zo'u mi citka da
> = naku su'o da zo'u mi citka da
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
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