[lojban-beginners] Re: lojban qua lingua franca

[Jorge "Llambías" <jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar>]

--- Andrew Archibald <archibal@math.mcgill.ca> wrote:
> It appears that in their terminology, what I am looking for is a Stage
> 3 fu'ivla, as it has a rafsi qualifier. 

Yes, I said 4 but I meant 3. For some reason I can never remember
that correctly.
 
> As you say, it meets the
> criteria for fu'ivla, but it does not follow the algorithm.  But
> following the algorithm in this case leads irreducibly to a
> four-consonant cluster, which I personally find rather difficult.  In
> fact, for many many gismu we will end up with such a cluster: if the
> four-letter rafsi has a vowel as its second letter, which is the case
> for 1104 gismu, then it must end with a pair of consonants; the
> algorithm always ensures that at least two more follow.  

The algorithm guarantees a three-consonant cluster, and in some 
cases as you say a four-consonant one. That's to make the word
"crunchy" enough so that it won't break apart. The result is almost
invariably a mouthful.

> Since this is
> only one suggested algorithm, have people devised their own,
> guaranteed-safe, procedures?  Or do people rely on fu'ivla having been
> generated using the algorithm to recognize them?

For one-time on-the-fly uses, the algorithm gives a relatively
simple way to manage. For words intended to last, you just have
to be careful to find a nice but valid form. Here is a list of
all valid short (up-to-seven-letter) fu'ivla forms: 

<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Exhaustive+list+of+short+fu%27ivla+forms>

> Looking at the CLL, a step in the lujvo-making algorithm is not clear
> to me:  suppose I want to make a lujvo out of {makfu nazbu}.  That
> would be {makfynazbu}?  The point of confusion is this: 
> 
> Step 4 is "Add hyphen letters where necessary. It is illegal to add a
> hyphen at a place that is not required by this algorithm." 
> 
> Steps 4 a through c describe hyphenations; but are these "always put a
> hyphen" or "if you put a hyphen, this is how"?  

Always in those cases.

> Specifically, will a four-letter rafsi always be followed by a "y" in
> lujvo?  (this never occurs in /usr/share/lojban/lujvo-list)

Yes, always.

mu'o mi'e xorxes



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