[lojban-beginners] Re: la umpti.dumptis.

[Jon Reeves <jon@happyvalley.eclipse.co.uk>]

Robin Lee Powell wrote:

> > la umpti.dumptis. zutse lo bitmu
> Humty Dumty sits on a wall

> > i. la umpti.dumptis. barda farlu
> Humty Dumty bigly fell (I'd use clani farlu or ralju farlu)

a long fall sounds better than a big fall in english (despite the original being "Humpty Dumpty had a big fall"), however looking up the definitions they are extremely similar:

clani       cla      
long                                      
 x1 is long in dimension/direction x2 (default longest dimension) by measurement standard x3 

barda       bra      
big                   'large'             
 x1 is big/large in property/dimension(s) x2 (ka) as compared with standard/norm x3  

Seems that the difference is that clani is more about a measured dimension of a physical object, whereas barda is more about describing things (not necessarily objects - 'property/dimension(s)' )that are relatively large, so i think perhaps barda is the better choice for this?

> > i. ro loi xirma je prenu pe le nolraitru
> All of the groups of things that are horses and men at the same time
> and are loosely associate with the king.  :-)

yeah, i thought I might actually be talking about the kings centaurs

> ro xirma .e ro prenu zi'e po le nolraitru

I didnt realise ro could be used without a lo, makes sense though - is the lo assumed to be present but ellided?

Not sure about the zi'e ? "joins relative clauses which apply to the same sumti" ?
Wouldnt you need something like poi as a restrictive clause in there so that you are only talking about all the horses and all the men _which_ are alienable possessions of the king

Also, I thought the loi should be included to indicate that it is the mass of men and horses that are incapable of putting him together again, rather than each of them individually being unable to do so

maybe -

loi ro xirma .e ro prenu poi po le nolraitru

> > cu na zbasu la umpti.dumptis.
> Are not makers of Humty Dumty.
> Try cikre.

yes, much better

Thanks for the input, I've been trying to learn Lojban for ages and i've just got to the point where i can start writing stuff that is understandable - even if not quite what i meant

Jon