[lojban-beginners] tanru with conversions

[Chris Capel <pdf23ds@gmail.com>]

On 8/17/05, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/17/05, Chris Capel <pdf23ds@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So here's one last question on this. Is
> > the tanru sense of {xunblabi kanla} and {xunblabi se kanla} the same,
> > vagueness and all, out of context of this bridi?
> 
> In theory, at least, yes. All we can say is that the relation {xunblabi}
> is modifying the relation {kanla}/{se kanla} (which is the same relation,
> it only differs in the order of the arguments). There are no specified
> rules as to how the modification goes.
> 
> >Or is it the case
> > that the first would be preferred because the intended interpretation
> > is more obvious, but the second allows that interpretation as well,
> > and so is permissible, but less obvious? In other words, does {se
> > kanla} suggest (even if it doesn't compel) that {xunblabi} is talking
> > about the x2 of {kanla} instead of x1?
> 
> It's hard to say. Why would it be more obvious that in {xunblabi broda}
> {xunblabi} apply to the x1 of {broda} and not to the x2? Because {xunblabi}
> is a color word? Because it is an "adjective"? Perhaps so, or perhaps
> we are just being influenced by our natlangs. In any case there are
> no rules in Lojban that tell us which one should be preferred, at least not
> so far.

pamai abu troci le nu catlu le cnita gi'e facki le du'u abu makau
klama i ku'i dukse le ka manku kei le nu ka'e viska .i remai abu catlu
lei mlana be le jintyke'a gi'e facki le du'u my culno loi se kajna
tanxe ku joi loi cukta kajna

OK, so what's the deal with {se kajna tanxe}? Does the first place of
the seltau matter where the first place of the tertau doesn't? If no,
then why ever use a place conversion on a seltau with no filled sumti?

Is this discussed anywhere in CLL?

And what exactly does {se kajna tanxe} mean? Boxes supported as if
they were shelves? Or boxes on shelves? Something else?

Chris Capel
-- 
"What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it
like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?"
-- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)