Einar Faanes wrote:
I'm continuing my quest to construct new lujvo. This time I tried "revolution" (fundamental/big change in government). It suprised me that it hadn't already been created.
The reason why such English words aren't quickly created in Lojban is that they mean a multitude of things to different people. The difference between a fundamental change in government and a big change in government alone would constitute a big difference in concept. There is also the question of violence (one could argue that the 1992 collapse of the Soviet Union was a fundamental change in government, but is not generally labeled a "revolution". And maybe there is some other factor as well: the installations of new governments of Germany both in 1933 and in 1945-6 were not labeled "revolutions". On the other hand, the peaceful changeover in Czechoslavia in 1989 was called the "Velvet Revolution".
Then there are other meanings of "revolution" which are tied to the same concept. The "Industrial Revolution" involved no change of government at all. Merriam-Webster.com gives the following for the relevant definition.
2 a : a sudden, radical, or complete change b : a fundamental change in political organization; especially : the overthrow or renunciation of one government or ruler and the substitution of another by the governed c : activity or movement designed to effect fundamental changes in the socioeconomic situation d : a fundamental change in the way of thinking about or visualizing something : a change of paradigm <the Copernican revolution> e : a changeover in use or preference especially in technology <the computer revolution> <the foreign car revolution>
The answer of course is that we shouldn't be trying to come up with a "lujvo for 'revolution'".
If you want a word for a fundamental change in government, fine. Do so, and define it that way, perhaps listing "revolution" as a synonym. But if the word is added to jbovlaste as a word for "revolution", it would be wise to add words for some of these other concepts of what a "revolution" is, so that people don't mindlessly encode the English word with "the" Lojban word for revolution.
(there have been past debates about other politically loaded words: tyranny, democracy, and libertarian all come to mind, and Lojban List recently discussed a word for "the Singularity" as a concept, reaching no obvious conclusions).
> I'll also be happy if someone
could come up with a gismu which is closer to "fundamental" than barda.
jicmuAlso the x3 of catni may be relevant. That is what is usually changed in a political revolution.
I'll be happy for any response whatsoever. This is my notes: barda (bra): b1 is big/large in property/dimension(s) b2 (ka) as compared with standard/norm b3
I think there is no clear dimension that can be identified in calling a revolution "big" (the use of "property" indicates how a "dimension" would likely be represented), and it isn't clear what the standard/norm place would be filled by since it has to be something measured by the same scale/dimension as the x2; "banli" would likely be better since it focuses on properties that need not be clearly scalar, and uses no standard or norm. I suspect that the extremeness of the change is significant to the concept of revolution, which means you might want to consider "mutce".
Revolutions are generally undertaken by (or on behalf of) the governed (se turni or se catni), as opposed to some self-selected elite (a coup d'etat).
lojbab