Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Duration questions

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> xorxes, can you give an equally explicit example of your opinions on how
> ze'u should work?  (maybe using the same example of limna for maximum
> clarity for a noob like myself?)

OK, instead of me giving you the fish, let me teach you how to fish.

Every tag (every cmavo of PU, FAhA, ZEhA, VEhA, ZI, VA, etc.) can be
expressed as "fi'o broda (fe'u)" with a suitable choice of broda. This
is important, the tag is just a shortcut for expressing something that
could be expressed with a full predicate. Don't think of the tag as
the basic element. For some tags, the corresponding broda is obvious:

pu = fi'o selpru
ba = fi'o selbalvi
ca = fi'o selcabna
ne'i = fi'o selne'i
zu'a = fi'o selzunle
be'a = fi'o selberti
fa'a = fi'o farna

And so on. For other tags, the predicate to use is not so obvious. If
you look at the Lojban-Lojban definitions for tags in jbovlaste, you
will find a corresponding selbri for each tag. (Those definitions are
not official, they were written by me so they reflect my understanding
of each tag. But the principle would be the same with a different
understanding of the tag: you would just pick a different
corresponding selbri).

Once you have the selbri, you can figure out how to use the tag as a
sumti tcita, following this simple rule:

    brode <tag> ko'a
 = brode fi'o broda ko'a
 = ko'a broda lo nu brode

The tag establishes a relationship between the event described by the
main selbri and the sumti that the tag tags.

For example:

    mi crepu lo mudri pu lo dunra
 = mi crepu lo mudri fi'o selpru lo dunra
 = lo dunra cu selpru lo nu mi crepu lo mudri
    "Winter is the reference point from which my collecting wood is in
the past."
    "I collect wood before the winter."

Now, I define

  ze'a = fi'o krafamtei

Where:

  krafamtei: "x1 is the (non-descript) duration of x2"

Similarly:

  ze'i = fi'o tordu krafamtei
  ze'u = fi'o clani krafamtei
  ze'e = fi'o cimni krafamtei

So, let's apply the rule to an example with "ze'u":

lo cribe cu sipna ze'u lo dunra
= lo cribe cu sipna fi'o clani krafamtei lo dunra
= lo dunra cu clani krafamtei lo nu lo cribe cu sipna
"The winter is the long duration of the event of the bear sleeping."
"The bear sleeps all winter long."

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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