Re: [lojban-beginners] lo do ckiku ma zvati

[Alan Post <alanpost@sunflowerriver.org>]

On Mon, Jul 05, 2010 at 05:48:32PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 02, 2010 at 09:20:57AM -0700, Alan Post wrote:
> > For as many moments as I could spare in the last month, I've been
> > working on a lojban website:
> > 
> > http://lodockikumazvati.org/
> > 
> > "lo do ckiku ma zvati" is "Where are your Keys?" in Lojban.
> > "Where are your Keys?" is a language learning game I've been
> > involved with the past 6 months.  I host regular WAYK Spanish
> > sessions, and play WAYK solo in teaching myself Lojban.
> 
> This did not get the response it deserved.
> 
> Stephen Weeks has been talking to me about a local (San Francisco
> bay area) WAYK group that has met ... once? twice? ... and
> apparently went quite well.
> 
> I'm *very* impressed by
> http://lodockikumazvati.org/se_tadni/le_vajrai_se_tadni_20100524.pdf
> , in particular by the use of signwriting.
> 
> Go you!
> 

Thank you so much Robin.

> A general question about WAYK, which I find difficult to learn from
> the website: I notice that your version of the universal speed
> curriculum has signs in it, but
> http://whereareyourkeys.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/usc-wayk-espanol.pdf
> , for example, does not.  Is the game always played with ASL as part
> of it?  I mean, do you basically *have* to learn ASL to play WAYK?
> (this wouldn't bother me; I want to learn ASL anyways, just want
> clarification)
> 

The game is always played with ASL.  You have to learn at least as
much ASL as you have proficiency in your target spoken language.

My adding the signs to the USC (Universal Speed Curriculum) was a
technical innovation on my part that hasn't made it's way back to
the USC Español, USC Engilsh, or USC Chinuk Wawa.

The USC Español was translated by Billy and Walter for my WAYK
group.  I didn't know about SignWriting at the time, and only came
to use it after I started working on WAYK Lojban material.


> Some minor comments:
> 
> 1.  You say that the signs are "what that", but it's actually "that
> what".
> 

I have fixed this in my repository and it will go out in the next
update:

http://github.com/alanpost/lodockikumazvati/commit/caa6e2793d2f39ceb46dccc9b47e11306ee1b9b1

> 2.  ASL "question" is a bit more complicated than that:
> http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchsign.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=2789
> 

Indeed so.  I need to update the website to swis 2010 before I can
fix this bug, but I'll get it fixed.

> 3.  Is this:
> http://www.signbank.org/SignPuddle1.5/searchsign.php?ui=1&sgn=4&sid=8529
> what you're using for ja'a?  Yeah, looks like.  Not sure what you're
> going to do when you get to {nu'e}, but other than that I like it.
> :)
> 

I've had to make a policy of not worrying too much about what I'll
be doing next or I'd never get the current step done...

In general, I think the further along I get translating things into
Lojban, the more frustrating it will be to translate the ASL.  I've
been brainstorming some coping strategies for this, but haven't had
to use them yet.

It does make me wish for Signed Exact Lojban.  ;-)


> 4.  What's with all the {cu} and {vau}?  Seems unnecessarily
> complicated.
> 

On IRC, I was told (I think by xorxes) that it is standard procedure
to teach newbies all the elidable terminators and only after
practicing with them begin to practice without them.

It didn't quite fit my own intuition, but I was trying to adopt the
best practice we've discovered for teaching Lojban.  I'm happy to
discuss this.  It may turn out there isn't concensus on which is
best.

-Alan
-- 
ko djuno fi le do sevzi

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