<<
If, as you have been wont to say, "mi nelci lo'e cakla" etc. can
be aptly glossed as "I am a chocolate-liker", "That is a sofa-
resembler"/"That is sofa-like", "That is a boa-depicter", then "lo'e
cinfo cu xabji le friko" would be "Africa is lion-inhabited", which
seems to me not the same as "The [generic] lion lives in Africa",
though each of the two different meanings is a challenge to
express adequately in Lojban.
>>
Cherlin's former tag from Alice, "Oh, a knot! Let me untie it," applies here: givena tanru, somone always want to unpack it and so {lo'e} and the like make a nice way-station on that trip (but far short of the last stage, I think).
<<
If "tu'o du'u ce'u da cinfo" is the way to refer to the Lion
intension, I wonder if ways can be found to express all the
meanings using "tu'o du'u ce'u da cinfo" rather than "lo'e",
just for the sake of clarity. Then "lo'e" could be defined
as an abbreviation of certain more longwinded Lojban forms.
>>
Some place back in that chocolate pile are some arguments against {tu'o} here (or anywhere), but I can't drag them out just now. In any case, I think it is finally clear that xorxes' {lo'e ...} is different from {le/lo/tu'o/no'o du'u ce'u ...} -- and rather more complex.
Is {ce'u da} two terms (as CLL appears to have it) or "lambda x" as good ogic would use it? I root for the latter but despair of achieving anything with {du'u/ka} anymore.
<<
But I would rather abolish lo'e/le'e. Any cmavo about whose
meaning there is virtually nil consensus, even after years
upon years of discussion, should be binned
>>
I think we need more of them, since what can be said with them takes for ever without them. As for nil consensus, some parts of the language are just ahrder to master than others -- even for the people who invented them (encouraging sign of the language's autonomy).
<<
A lot of your debate with pc could be avoided if you eschewed
the form {lo'e} and used an unassigned cmavo for your purposes
instead
>>
No, the word was only peripherally the issue (and turned out to be the one part that approximately made correct sense). Figuring out what xorxes meant would have had to be done in any case. And, I think, the results is now pretty close to considerable clarity on the matter (I'm still not sure exactly what xorxes means, but I know the category and how most of what the line of chat works).
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