Re: [lojban] Re: the meter is a unit of length

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On 8/5/05, John E Clifford <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Of course, this leaves out the scales that are
> not numeric (more or less): I remember the old
> phallometer for measuring the arousal power of
> porn and ranged from "flaccid" to "rock hard,
> extra long and straight" or some such terms.  I
> suppose those could be assigned numbers, but that
> seems less than enlightening.  I also suppose
> that as a place on {klani}, x2 is more or less
> required to be numeric, since "limp," for
> example, is hardly a quantity or a measure of
> same.

I'd say {mapti} for that type of scale.

> > For me the problem with {ni} is not so much
> > unclarity of
> > the possible meanings, there are basically
> > three that I can
> > identify, each pretty clear. The problem is
> > that there is no
> > consistency in sticking with just one of them,
> > even for the
> > same person.
> >
> Spell out please, I think I have only thought of
> the value-on-a-scale sense (forcing the creation
> of some rather strange scales).

That one is the most commonly used in definitions, and
probably what agrees most with what the ma'oste says:

ni [ nil ] amount abstract
abstractor: quantity/amount abstractor; 
x1 is quantity/amount of [bridi] measured on scale x2 

But when we get down to actual examples, or usage, that
meaning is hardly seen at all, probably because it is not
very useful.

For example, CLL contrasts it with {ka}:

<<
5.4)  le pixra cu cenba le ka ce'u blanu [kei]
    the picture varies in-the property-of (X is blue)
    The picture varies in being blue.
    The picture varies in blueness.

is not the same as 
5.5)  le pixra cu cenba le ni ce'u blanu [kei]
    the picture varies in-the amount-of (X is blue)
    The picture varies in how blue it is.
    The picture varies in blueness.

Example 5.4 conveys that the blueness comes and goes, whereas Example
5.5 conveys that its quantity changes over time.
>>

where {ni} is something like {ka se la'u ma kau} as opposed
to {ka xu kau}. This is what I would say is the more useful 
meaning of {ni}, and is the one indirectly supported by the 
gi'uste, that has ka/ni suggested for many places, for example 
with comparatives.

mu'o mi'e xorxes