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RE: [lojban] tautologies
In a message dated 2/12/2002 1:01:28 PM Central Standard Time,
xod@sixgirls.org writes:
> I thought the subjunctive referred to hypothetical worlds.
That is one way to do it, but hardly helpful, since there is precious little
agreement about how to refer to hypothetical worlds or otherwise deal with
them.
<"costs what it costs" is a tautology, carrying no logical content about
the price, but rather indicating emphasis. Classic application for modal
selbri:>
It should be, but literal translations into Lojban are not tautologies. And
the form wanted is still "whatever it may cost" which is subjunctive again --
in English and Spanish, at least.
<fi'o jdima fe'u vecnu ta mi>
"Pricely I will buy it" doesn't bring much to mind -- and sounds like I
wouldrather buy it expensive than cheap. It might do if emphasis is all that
is needed.
<And of course, the ckinytadji way:
fancu lo velvecnu le jei mi tervecnu kei nodada'o
(My buying of it is orthogonal to its price)>
{ckinytadji. "related/relative method"?
Well, the point of the original seems to be that there is no function
relating the two -- which may be the point of the "no definition" phrase
here. But this is equally true of a claim that I would NOT buy, whatever it
cost or take it even if it were given away.
<META: I suggest that this discussion move to jboske.>
I don't get it, and if all the good stufff goes there, what will be left
here?
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/12/2002 1:01:28 PM Central Standard Time, xod@sixgirls.org writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I thought the subjunctive referred to hypothetical worlds.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
That is one way to do it, but hardly helpful, since there is precious little agreement about how to refer to hypothetical worlds or otherwise deal with them.<BR>
<BR>
<"costs what it costs" is a tautology, carrying no logical content about<BR>
the price, but rather indicating emphasis. Classic application for modal<BR>
selbri:><BR>
<BR>
It should be, but literal translations into Lojban are not tautologies. And the form wanted is still "whatever it may cost" which is subjunctive again -- in English and Spanish, at least.<BR>
<BR>
<fi'o jdima fe'u vecnu ta mi><BR>
<BR>
"Pricely I will buy it" doesn't bring much to mind -- and sounds like I wouldrather buy it expensive than cheap. It might do if emphasis is all that is needed.<BR>
<BR>
<And of course, the ckinytadji way:<BR>
<BR>
fancu lo velvecnu le jei mi tervecnu kei nodada'o<BR>
(My buying of it is orthogonal to its price)><BR>
<BR>
{ckinytadji. "related/relative method"?<BR>
Well, the point of the original seems to be that there is no function relating the two -- which may be the point of the "no definition" phrase here. But this is equally true of a claim that I would NOT buy, whatever it cost or take it even if it were given away.<BR>
<BR>
<META: I suggest that this discussion move to jboske.><BR>
<BR>
I don't get it, and if all the good stufff goes there, what will be left here?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Jorge Llambias wrote:
> >This seems to be the kind of thing that would translate well to Lojban.
>
> Doing subjunctive in Lojban is even harder than in English.
> English at least has a remnant of one.
I thought the subjunctive referred to hypothetical worlds.
> >Could it be something like {ko'a noi leke'a jdima cu jdima ke'a zo'u
> >vecnu ri mi}?
>
> I would do that in Spanish as:
>
> "Eso, que cuesta lo que cuesta, lo compro."
> "That thing, which costs what it costs, I buy it."
"costs what it costs" is a tautology, carrying no logical content about
the price, but rather indicating emphasis. Classic application for modal
selbri:
fi'o jdima fe'u vecnu ta mi
And of course, the ckinytadji way:
fancu lo velvecnu le jei mi tervecnu kei nodada'o
(My buying of it is orthogonal to its price)
--
META: I suggest that this discussion move to jboske.
--
The tao that can be tar(1)ed
is not the entire Tao.
The path that can be specified
is not the Full Path.
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