[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [lojban] Re: A (rather long) discussion of {all}



On 5/23/06, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
On 5/23/06, Maxim Katcharov <maxim.katcharov@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> du'emei = x1 is a set with too many members x2

I think that was the original place structure of {mei}, then it was
changed to:

mei [ mem mei ] cardinal selbri
convert number to cardinality selbri;
x1 is the mass formed from set x2 with member(s) x3
[x1 is a mass with N components x3 composing set x2;
x2 is an n-tuple (x2 is completely specified) (= selmei for reordered places);
x1 forms an n-some; x3 (not necessarily a complete enumeration) are
[among the] members of x2]; (cf. cmima, gunma, cmavo list moi)

In my opinion, the original was better, with "set" understood in a
non-technical sense.

> x1 being {lo ro mapku}
>
> Why is {lo ro mapku} being converted into a set, while {ro lo mapku} isn't?

I don't ever use sets, so even when the gi'uste suggests/imposes that a
place must be filled only with a set (it happens to not be the case this time,
but even if was the case), I just ignore it. My reason for doing this
is that sets
don't add anything interesting, and they can quite complicate things.

{lo ro mapku} refers to all hats, but it says nothing about distributivity of
any predicate that applies to them. {loi ro mapku} indicates explicitly that
all hats satisfy the place together/collectively. {ro lo ro mapku}
says explicitly
that each of all hats fits the place by itself.

I still don't see why

ro lo mapku cu melbi gi'e ku'i du'e mei do'e lo nu mi bevri

(ku'i ro lo mapku du'emei do'e lo nu mi bevri)

wouldn't work if

lo ro...

does. I also don't see how you can be converting it into a mass automatically.

x1 is the mass formed from set x2 with member(s) x3

If {ro L_ ci mapku} was placed in x1, I would take it to mean that
each hat was a mass individually. You'd need a {lu'o} or something of
the sort.