Re: [lojban] Re: A (rather long) discussion of {all}

["Jorge Llambías" <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On 6/3/06, John E Clifford <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> As you may recall, my suggestion mirrors the
> English for "individually" and "collectively" (or
> "together"), attaching as convenient to sumti or
> predicate place (so, I suppose that UI is about
> the only selmaho that will work -- unless we
> invent a new one).

In English those adverbs normally indicate how the predicate
applies to the subject. For example:

   The men carried the pianos together.

would normally mean that each piano was carried by all the men,
not that each man carried all the pianos at once. Is that what you
have in mind, that when the predicate is tagged, it indicates how
it applies to the x1?

> The point of using {lu'o} and
> the like is that they would have no use in the
> mildly revised system and so could be used for
> something else -- in this case something related,
> even.

There has been resistance to changing utterly useless words, so
I don't expect a proposal to change something not totally useless
like {lu'o} to succeed. I wouldn't especially oppose it, but I know
others would.

> I think this would have a minimal effect
> on old text, since 1) {lu'o} and the like have
> scarcely ever been used and 2) the old forms are
> legitmate under the new dispensation and have the
> same meaning (or what now corresponds to the old
> meaning).  These last two claims are
> impressionistic, so correct them if they are
> wrong.

{lu'o} has seen some use, I don't know about "scarcely", it is hard
to quantify. Some cmavo I would be pretty sure have seen no use,
but I don't think {lu'o} is one of them. If it's moved to UI, then the
old forms would change rather drastically because UIs attach to
the preceding word and {lu'o} applies to the sumti that follows. That
could be partly solved by putting it in BAhE instead of in UI, but the
scope would still be wrong, because {lu'o} can take any number of
connected sumti, whereas BAhE only takes the immediately
following word.

mu'o mi'e xorxes