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Re: [lojban] Re: A (rather long) discussion of {all}
On 6/3/06, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
On 6/3/06, Maxim Katcharov <maxim.katcharov@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Are the relationships "26 students surround the building" and "26
> students wear hats" different in any way?
Yes, in the first case the predicate, "surround the building" is applied
collectively, and in the second case the predicate "wear hats" is applied
distributively.
Uh, yeah. In the first one, it is applied "bunch-together", and in the
second it is applied "bunch-individually". What's the difference
between the two? Offer an explanation that highlights the difference
between the two, and not just a different way to name these things.
> There is a distinct
> difference between how "26 students" is used in the former, and how it
> is used in the latter (even if the referent is the same), yes?
No, "26 students" refers in both cases to 26 students and it is only used
for that, in both cases to refer to those 26 students.
No, it *refers* to the 26 students in the same way (by your
reckoning), but it is *used* differently. It is absurd to suggest that
"26 students" is *used* in the exact same way in both "...surrounded
the building" and "...wore hats".
In "...wore hats", it is used in a way that means that Alice herself wore a hat.
In "...surrounded the building", it is used in a way that means Alice...?
One answer is that she was a component of the mass that surrounded the
building - this is my answer.
The other answer (that you offered) was that she was the referent of
the 26 students that surround the building. This doesn't explain
anything, because she's also a referent of the 26 students that wore
hats. (It's like trying to explain the difference between a cat and
dog by calling one an animal.)