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Re: [lojban] Re: Duty, promice etc...
On 1/5/07, John E Clifford <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--- Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Which English expressions involving the noun "promise" should
> not be translated by {lo se nupre} in Lojban?
As noted earlier, "make a promise" and probably "break a promise"
and "keep a promise."
If we want to translate those as {broda lo brode}, it seems to me that
{lo se nupre} is the obvious choice for {lo brode} and the problematic bit
would be what to use for {broda}, since {zmadu}, {porpygau} and {ralte}
would be too metaphorical. We'd have to go with something more
mundane such as {nupre lo se nupre}, {nalzu'e lo se nupre} and
{zukte lo se nupre}. Or we could avoid using that form and say {nupre
da} in the first case. But I still don't see what else you could use for
{lo brode}. Certainly not {lo nu nupre} or {lo su'u nupre} as far as I can
see. What I'm trying to say is that if we want to translate "a promise"
as a sumti, {lo se nupre} would seem to be the only? choice, and not
{lo NU nupre} for some NU.
all of these can be done (equivalently though
not similarly) with {nupre} or even {lo se nupre}but that doesn't mean
that {lo se nupre} is good Lojban for "promise" -- the context has to
change too much.
I guess that's what I don't see yet.
> Which English expressions involving the noun "obligation" should
> not be translated by {lo se bilga} in Lojban?
"Has an obligation" at least, probably the other main cases (but
"obligation" is different from "promise" is a couple of ways: it is more
general, need not involve something verbal (and so may not have a
definite beginning), can end in other ways that fulfillment or release
and so on.
"Has an obligation" would not be {ponse lo se bilga}, but the
problem again seems to be with {ponse}, not with {lo se bilga}. Again
the most obvious choice for me would be the redundant {bilga lo se bilga}
or just {bilga da}. But "obligation" would not be {lo NU bilga}.
Or maybe you are thinking of something like {ckaji lo ka bilga},
"has the property of being obliged"? Is that how you read the "has"
of "has an obligation", like the one of "has a property"?
mu'o mi'e xorxes