Re: [lojban] Re: Duty, promice etc...

["Jorge Llambías" <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On 1/7/07, Cyril Slobin <slobin@ice.ru> wrote:
> I opine that "being an unrealized event" is event about event: {lo nu
> broda be lo nu brode}, where {lo nu brode} is event
> promised/requested/ordered and {lo nu broda} is the state of its
> unrealizedness.

Yes. The promise istself is an unrealized event. The state of something
being a promise, or the event of making a promise, are real events.

> The good example of such {lo nu broda} is {lo nu
> bilga}. In fact {lo nu bilga} is a very general kind of unrealizedness
> (like "nu" is very general kind of event) - whether you have promise,
> request or order, you are in some or other way obliged to do so. I
> opine the event of promising, requesting and commanding ( {lo nu
> nupre}, {lo nu cpedu} and {lo nu  minde}) are good for x3 of {bilga}.

I agree:

  mi bilga lo nu gasnu lo se nupre kei lo nu ba'o nupre lo se nupre
  "I am obliged to carry out a promise by having made a promise."

The x2 of bilga, my obligation, is the unrealized event of bringing about
the promise.

The x3 of bilga, the source of my obligation, is the realized event of
having made the promise.

> So, "I am bound by a promise" is {mi bilga lo nu mi brode lo nu mi
> nupre}.

Yes. Here "a promise" is metonymy for "having made a promise".
I am bound to carry out my promise, by having made that promise.

> Because it is (or should be) a very common pattern, I suggest
> a series of lujvo in form {nupybilga} whith following place stucture:
> x1 = nupre1 = bilga1 "who is promised and therefore obliged",  x2 =
> nupre2 = bilga2 "what is promiced and therefore obliged";  bilga3 =
> {le nu nupre} and omitteded from lujvo place structure, x3 = nupre3
> "beneficiary/victim of a promise".

How would that differ from plain {nupre}?

mu'o mi'e xorxes