Re: [lojban] Looking down: executive summary?

["Jorge Llambias" <jjllambias@hotmail.com>]

la nitcion cusku di'e

> Because of the keyword {farna}, and Jorge's suggestion {fa'a ni'a catlu},
> I had the impression that, whereas other spatial tenses describe an
> imaginary journey from the speaker to the event or object,

Not to some object, always to the event. And not necessarily from
the speaker but from whatever the contextual reference happens to be,
maybe often the speaker, but obviously not in non-present narrations.

> {fa'a} does
> not, but merely states the direction in which the event is pointing,

That's how I understand it, and we do need something for that meaning.

> or
> the speaker is pointing relative to the object.

Not the speaker! Always the event. Tenses are always of the event,
not of the speaker nor of any of the arguments by themselves.

> When we say {mi bacru ni'a
> le bloti}, we mean that there is a downwards imaginary journey from the
> boat to me.

To "my speaking" rather than to "me", but yes.

> When we say {do ni'a bacru}, we mean that there is a downwards
> imaginary journey from me to where you are speaking.

Yes, from me or from whatever the contextual reference point
happens to be.

> My impression was
> that, instead, {mi bacru fa'a le bloti} means, not that there is an
> imaginary journey from me towards the boat (i.e. saying where the boat is
> relative to me), but merely that my speaking is
> pointing towards the boat. And likewise, that {mi fa'a bacru} meant that
> my speaking was somehow pointing in some direction.

That's my understanding.

> this is not engaging
> in obscurantism for the sake of it, and would indeed be the first thing
> anyone exposed to directional tenses would do with English directional
> adverbs. If you cannot do this with Lojban spatial tenses, and they
> indicate only locations and not orientations, then so be it;

Lojban spatial tenses are much more useless than they appear
at first sight...

> And if the Lessons are pitched at the wrong level, then I'm happy to let
> someone else take them over; they've taken three months as is, and I don't
> have the time for a radical rewrite.

You have done a most excellent job, the more of these issues you
deal with the better as far as I am concerned.

mu'o mi'e xorxes



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