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In a message dated 11/7/2002 5:26:48 PM Central Standard Time, a.rosta@lycos.co.uk writes: << I had forgotten that you don't accept >> Only if the latter = ro da zo'u ganai da broda gi da brode. One equation or the other is fine, just not both (which reduces the first to the last). << You have no grounds for saying this "is just not true", unless it is clearly stated in the Red Book of Woldemar. It is not a question of logic, it is merely a question of Lojban. Those two structures are equivalent if we decree they are and not equivalent if we decree they aren't. They are Lojban bridi, not logical formulas. >> Well, it is about as clear in CLL as almost anything else -- that is, not very. Still, over the years the case for it has become clearer. As for whether the two sentences (I mean the clear cases, {ro broda cu brode} and {ro da zo'u ganai da broda gi da brode} -- I agree that the {da poi} case could go either way) are equivalent, I suppose that, since they look exactly like two different sentences in Logic and Lojban is spoken Logic, I expect that the difference will carry over. Otherwise, some part of this story has to go, and then the floodgates are open. << I really don't see what we have to lose by agreeing on the 3-way equation, except for confusion and endless discussion. If you want {ro broda cu brode} to entail {su'o broda cu brode}, let's judt define you an experimental cmavo ro'o'o that works your way & then everyone is happy. >> You do have it backwards, you know. The importing {ro} has been here for going on 50 years, so the {ro'o'o} goes for non-importing one (actually, there are better versions for it -- {ro da ganai gi} being the most obvious). << In the light of this, can we take this issue as settled? In the spirit of resolving the debate, I will even offer to document ro'o'o on the wiki (to the best of my ability), if you wish. >> don't care about {ro'o'o}, so long as you get the basic stuff right: {ro} always and everywhere imports for its subject. It does seem that you do not have that bit down yet after all these years. To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. |