[lojban] Re: zi, vi, ca, bu'u

[Jorge "Llambías" <jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar>]

la greg cusku di'e

> First: Am I correct in saying that zi is the time equivalent of vi? and 
> that ca is the time equivalent of bu'u?

Yes, that's correct.

vi indicates a small spatial displacement of the event from the
origin (typically the place of the utterance, the speaker).
zi indicates a small temporal displacement of the event from the
origin (typically the time of the utterance).

ca corresponds to cabna
bu'u corresponds to zvati

> On irc, I said: ma nuzba vi le norge (the example xorxes quotes on phpbb)
> 
> Is this incorrect or just not as accurate as it should be? 

That's hard to say. In Loglan, there is no {bu'u} and {vi} is what
they use as the space equivalent of {ca}. In early Lojban that was
the case too. The introduction of {bu'u} occurred later, and the
(mis)use of {vi} for that function was never succesfully erradicated. 
So that use of vi is sanctiones by usage although technically 
incorrect.

>What would be 
> a less "foreign" way of saying this?
> 
> ma nuzba ne'i le norge
> ma nuzba bu'u le norge
> ...

As Jordan points out, this may not be the best selbri to discuss
this, as Norway might be the topic rather than the location.
But if you want to say, for example "what's going on in Norway?"
I would say {ma fasnu bu'u le norgo}. 

> What exactly does bu'u mean? Pragmatically, two objects cannot occupy 
> the same space: I can be in something, around something, but not 
> coincident with something.

The space occupied by an event is not always easy to determine, but
in the case of a country, it doesn't seem to be a problem that an
event occupies a space coincident with the country. {bu'u} does not
say that the two objects have to fully cover the same interval.
ZEhAs do that.

> Usage tends to favour {ca} in such sentences as "mi klama ca le cabdei", 
> but {vi} in "mi citka vi la bastn"

Correct. That usage was carried over from Loglan.

> These two sentences contain virtually the same information, one about 
> time, the other about space. And yet one uses {vi} and the other {ca}.
> 
> I'd have thought they should be using equivalent tenses: "mi klama zi le 
> cabdei" or "mi citka bu'u la bastn"

The latter. 

{mi klama zi le cabdei} means that I go just before or just after
today. Which one of the two it is has to be determined from context.

mu'o mi'e xorxes



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