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[lojban] Re: zi, vi, ca, bu'u
At 02:16 PM 5/11/03 -0700, Jorge "Llambías" wrote:
> On irc, I said: ma nuzba vi le norge (the example xorxes quotes on phpbb)
>
> Is this incorrect or just not as accurate as it should be?
That's hard to say. In Loglan, there is no {bu'u} and {vi} is what
they use as the space equivalent of {ca}. In early Lojban that was
the case too. The introduction of {bu'u} occurred later, and the
(mis)use of {vi} for that function was never succesfully erradicated.
So that use of vi is sanctiones by usage although technically
incorrect.
The answer to this that has let the old Loglan-like usage be grandfathered
in, is that "zi" means approximate to in time and "vi" means approximate to
in space. "approximate" to does not rule out colocation/simultaneity and
it does allow one to express the very close association in time or space.
> Usage tends to favour {ca} in such sentences as "mi klama ca le cabdei",
> but {vi} in "mi citka vi la bastn"
Correct. That usage was carried over from Loglan.
And I would interpret that as meaning that he ate somewhere in the Boston
area, just as "mi xabju vi la uacintn" and "mi xabju vi la ferfaks tcad"
(Fairfax City) but in fact I don't live ne'i either of them. But it
wouldn't be wrong for me to use "vi" even if I did live "ne'i".
Similarly, I like the use of "zi" for "on or about" when asked to specify a
time for a meeting. It would not mean to me that we will meet a minute or
two before or after the specified time, merely that the specified starting
time is approximate (which it usually is for meetings).
lojbab
--
lojbab lojbab@lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org