Re: Help in examples ...

["riderofgiraffes" <lojban@solipsys.co.uk>]

> "my father" is not a noun but 
> works like a noun. 
 
Er, I would suggest that "my father" is, in fact, exactly a complex 
noun. 
 
> All this is not precise, is methaphor. 
 
And I disagree with you. This is not metaphor, these are grammatical 
terms, and they are precise. One of us is confused. Naturally, I 
think it's you. Perhaps someone else can find agreed common ground. 
 
 
> What I'm saying is that we may label things however we 
> want as long as we get the meaning across. 
 
This is in part exactly my point - you *cannot* label things however 
you choose because then they do *not* get the point across. 
Labelling {sumti} as "nouns" is grossly misleading. It denies the 
unification and consistency offered by the lojban grammar, one of 
its strongest points. 
 
> No particular way of labelling has magical effects. 
 
Some ways of labelling have deeply detrimental effects.  This is so 
obvious, especially if you believe the SWH, that I'm sure you can't 
believe otherwise, but you seem to be claiming so.  Please tell me 
I'm misunderstanding you and clarify your position. 
 
> If someone wants to know how lojban works (I'm 
> not saying to learn it), you must explain that 
> {le karce cu blanu} means  
> "car is blue", regardless of whether you say that  
> {blanu} is a "gismu", a "verb" or a "pigeon".  
 
Actually it's closer to meaning something like "Some thing or things 
that I choose to refer to as a car or cars, is/are/were/will be 
blue." 
 
> Using nouns that a lojbanist would approve off  
> doesn't make things easier to understand at all.  
 
I didn't say she wants to know how it works, I said I'm trying to 
explain why the English grammatical terms are less accurate and 
often inappropriate.  Yes, one can say that generally {sumti} play 
the role of nouns, and {selbri} play the role of verbs, and that 
this is not always accurate, but without specific examples it's hard 
to make that stick. 
 
Are you really suggesting that {sumti} are always complex nouns?  If 
not, can you give me an example?  Just one will do.