[lojban] Re: lujvo cmene etc

[Jorge Llambías <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

On 5/22/05, Aleksej R. Serdyukov <deletesoftware@yandex.ru> wrote:
> Jorge Llambías wrote: 
> >On 5/21/05, Aleksej <deletesoftware@yandex.ru> wrote:
> >>
> >>la mozilyfaglo'u.
> >
> >That breaks as {la mo zilyfaglo'u}.
> >
> Why? How? What are consequences? If {mozilyfaglor} is valid, then why
> this isn't?

{mozilyfaglo} is a cmevla. Any string (with no invalid clusters in it)
that ends
in a consonant is a valid cmevla. But lujvo are more choosy. {mozilyfaglo'u} is
a valid string, it just consists of two separate words, a cmavo and a lujvo. 
Spaces are not always required between words.

> Does {mo} after {la} mean anything?

It's a question, yes. {la mo zilyfaglo'u} asks you to fill in the
missing brivla.

> ># la diLIT.syftver.LImitid. ku cu selstuzi le myskva be cu tcadu le rukgu'e
> >
>  > Can't use "ku" to terminate a sumti after a cmevla.
> 
> Is it written anywhere?
> It seems to be very difficult to find anything in the texts ...

If you can read a formal grammar, this is the best way to make sure of
what's grammatical or not:

<http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/hobbies/lojban/grammar/lojban.peg.txt>

(It may not be the definitive version yet, but it will be close to that.)

If not, there are various parsers around.

> >{be cu} should be {noi}.
> >
> Is there any sense to put a {noi} before {selstuzi} also? Because though
> "localted in Moscow, Russia" is not the point of the title, but it's
> just mentioned.

You could do that, then you would have a sumti instead of a full sentence.
Both are grammatical. But the {be cu} bit is ungrammatical.

> >>How to say "a song parody" (roughly the same tune, and derivative or
> >>completely different lyrics)?
> >
> >Maybe {selsanga xamfu'i/casfu'i}.
> >
> They are mostly or sometimes funny, yes, and often intended so, but
> that's not what "song parody" means. "Funny songs" {du} "parodies" is
> illogical.

What about {casfu'i}?

> It's crucial to make a lujvo/tanru/whatever for it, because I don't know
> if there is any official word for such things in Russian or English.
> English-speaking people are more comfortable using "song parody" for it,
> but in Russian, it is actually incorrect and people use "peredelka"
> (rework? rearrangment?) that I don't like.

A lujvo does not need to consist of a full definition. You take the most
salient parts of the concept and with those you can form a new word
that can mean more than just the sum of its parts.

mu'o mi'e xorxes